Discussion in 'Fangaming Discussion' started by Mr Lange, Oct 24, 2016.
It'll probably struggle with that.
You could always download it and find out, of course.
My Thinkpad T420 with 6GB of RAM can play it at a decent framerate at minimum settings, anyway. Dunno if that's helpful to you or not, but yeah, it's free anyway. Just try it and see.
Here's a question that I don't think has been asked yet, but forgive me if I'm wrong; have you two had any thoughts on adding in Tails and/or Knuckles? It'd be delightful to see them in the mix at some point. I know they bring their own sets of level design headaches but seeing them rendered with the same level of care as everything else in here would be a real treat.
Actually yes and that's what the arrow guide does obviously (duh). so what's is it there for? Standing there to look pretty? (Well funny thing there are no arrow guide for the secret level btw).
Also I had no trouble of finding the exit in Utopia myself.
I'm merely putting a small suggestions for people who have no experience on the whole giant playground like you're going for.
Nobody is continuing to "rail" on the "alpha sandbox level". It's not a sandbox, first of all. Second, we're talking about the design decisions apparent in both the level and what Lange has said he hoped to achieve from it. If you call that "railing" then I hope you never seek any criticism for anything you do in your lives. Ever.
winterhell I don't know what you expected when you came in this thread. That everybody would grab a pair of kneepads and kneel in line to orally manipulate Lange and co's testicles? Some people didn't like it as much as others, and pointed out changes they themselves would like to see. So yea, by definition "I don't like it, it'd be better this (my) way". So fucking what? What is your point, exactly, other than trying to suggest that people who don't like it are jealous? Cause that's dumb, and I would've thought that beneath you.
And I wasn't even talking to you.
I'm not against criticism, it's important, just in this case Mr. Lange has expressed that the final levels will be less open than this one. While some of his design choices will carry over, it's hard to say how any of it will work with more concise levels.
And I said that those specific design choices are antithetical to a Sonic game. I'm happy to be proven wrong though, which is why the last thing I said to him was "explain your thoughts" and he said "I can't, spoilers".
My issue with what you're suggesting vs what Mr Lange and co is trying to accomplish is that it seem you are wanting the UI to tell you where you are suppose to go. Mr Lange is suggesting that the level design guide the player through visual aid. I've always loved games that do this.
Nobody's trying to give oral stimuli over a proof of concept. Mr Lange has openly said that there are issues with the way the level was presented and that he would work on a more focused level design with subtle and visual guidance. If you've ever played Mario 64 or Sunshine, there was never anything on the UI that showed the play what to do or where to go (unless you press pause and even then it showed you the objective of star/shine you needed). No arrow, no map with a marker, just cohesive level design and visual aid. I believe there is merit to leaving it up to the player to find out where they need to go and with good level design it works!!! Sonic Adventure even did it well (for the sonic/tails/amy/Gamma stages) The instant the devs add something like arrows to the UI to guide the player to the goal, the dev already assumes the gamers incompetence and inabilty to orient him/herself and find the goal. When you first start sonic the Hedgehog, there is nothing telling you to go forward except sonic facing forward. Granted, It's much harder to convey, to the gamer, where you need to go in 3d with wide open level design, but again, the final product stages are said to be more focused and linear than the demo. What Dark Sonic is trying to say, I think, is wait to see what Mr Lange and crew has in mind for the level design before you dismiss their idea as
Sometimes the beaten dirt path yields great results than the paved roadway.
Also, take a look at this shot...
You have an arrow to orient you at the top of the sceen, ramps facing where you need to go, and arrows on the ramps, balls on both sides (Red on the left, Geen on the right).
Stuff like this breaks the player immersion of the game when you have beautiful and vibrant environment with a big ass arrow breaking that!!! I understand that it's an issue and maybe they can program it in with the ability to toggle it on and off, but I am apart of the group of people that don't need things like this in a game based on platforming. Open World games like GTA, FFXV, and every MMO ever needs it becuase the world itself has so much to do. Not a game where you are going from A to B.
I wasn't agreeing with the "railing", though i wasn't exactly specific in my reply. I welcome criticism in anything i do. However, the critic should know that their suggestions don't have to be used or taken. They maybe considered, but don't be butt-hurt if they decide to go a different route than what you suggest. You may be apart of the only few that think this.
In Half-Life 2 there was the City 17 Citadel in the background.
Having something different and interesting in the distance seems like a legit way. For example burning forests in Angel Island Zone, pyramids in Sandopolis, Veg-o-fortress or the Death Egg, or just a lightning storm on the horizon.
I agree with JucieBX that if you default to having an arrow pointing you towards the end, its easy to overlook the importance of visual cues.
JucieBX: Why would you think I want the UI to tell the player where to go? I wasn't even the one that brought up Crash Bandicoot 3, first of all. Second, I brought up SM64 myself as an example of an open world game design being done right. You've lost me.
Though your psuedo-poetic remark about how doing things the hard way could get the best results was cute, I don't see why you bothered. I wished him luck in solving his conundrum. Like I said, I'd love for him to explain his thoughts about why he thinks this could work as a cohesive game experience and not just an experiment, but he's worried about spoilers (which honestly seems ridiculous to me) and won't share so there's really nothing left for me to do but wish him luck.
No, you didn't bring it up but your reply here...
...seem to justify the existence of UI based aid in platforming video games...
Great!!! Good for you...I only reinforced it, along with sunshine, as games with great level design w/o guidance from the UI. Also, they have stated, a number of times now, that the level design will be more focused and less widespread. More focused on paths to take to get to the goal and not aimlessly open. I know it may be hard to take them at their word but that all we have until they release another build. Didn't mean to lose you but shit happens... />/>/>
Thanks, I thought it was pretty cute too...
He believes it can work. Sometimes it's better explained to show than tell. I know it's hard wait for answers, but they are developing a game for the fans to play. Maybe there are things, within the level, that will give the gamer a pleasantly surprising feeling and they would rather not give any hints to take away from that initial feeling. All we can do is wait
Dude, Aerosol, relax please. Lange already made clarification on certain subjects here. He explained to me on what I didn't know about and I'm glad he did.
To Lange, I apologize to you that you keep repeating yourself, I didn't know you already point out what you already cover.
I think it's time to move on from this silly argument.
Just believe in Lange and his team please
Agreed. Also I realized, when I first quoted your Crash Bandicoot 3 reference, How douchey my reply may have come off as....I apologize.... I was only trying to convey my thoughts on such a feature and how much it's already been touched on >_<
If there's anything I hate more than eggs done over-easy, it's being told to relax when I'm not worked up. It's like you're not even reading what I wrote. When are you going to apologize to me for repeating myself :v:
It's hilarious that you think I need to "believe in Lange" though. He's not doing me a favor. Only things I need to believe in are gravity and magnetism.
get it cuz they're invisible lolololololololol
@JucieBX: Oh and these "point by point but end up taking certain things out of context" replies are seriously grating as well. Justifying the existence of something isn't the same as wanting it. I can justify the existence of just about anything I want to justify the existence of. Doesn't mean I want it. I, personally, never used the arrow itself, but I didn't mind it being there either for what it's worth. And anyway that reply is taken out of context because it was a response to you (or was it someone else) calling it a guide or something like that. If you're choosing to interpret that as a general defense of guiding arrows and my desire to have them, then you're misinterpreting what I wrote. Either willfully, or...well momma said don't say nothing at all in these situations :v:
Anyway, like I said for what feels like the thousandth time, Lange's stated design choices and goals for the future are not things I want, even in line with "more focused level design", whatever that may mean. I stated this, and asked for clarification because I want him to succeed. He said "nope, spoilers" and I said good luck. That's that.
What, do you think I was being facetious or something?
"Good luck" is rarely uttered with sincerity, yes
Given the context of when I said it, I can't see why anyone would think it wasn't. "I want to see you succeed" followed later by "good luck". Seems pretty sincere to me.
But if anyone needs it spelled out for them, no I wasn't being facetious.
Quick question, will Green Hill make a return in the next demo build? Or is that zone a one time thing only?
Fuck green hill. It needs to go especially from fangames.
When we were preparing our demo for sage, Pulse0 really wanted to put checkerboards into the first level graphics and I simply forbid that. Because at this point reusing greenhill designs in anything Sonic related is nothing short of lazy.
Why don't you say that to the people that are working on Mania right now? : 3
I'll say it to their face. Fuck Green Hill. I don't have a problem with the "green first level" trope itself, but fuck green hill and it's closest derivatives. Palmtree Panic is cool though.
Geez, issue much?
Separate names with a comma.