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Sonic the Hedgehog Redemption

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by UtopiaUK, Mar 29, 2009.

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  1. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    I've done a quick playthrough, and all this hack has managed to do is frustrate me.

    The level layouts are annoying and seem to constantly force you into enemies and spikes, the music choices are largely inappropriate and ill-fitting, and pretty much everything I ran into reminded me of Megamix somehow. You got rid of the jump dash that seems to commonplace in every other hack these days, but then I saw that you made enemies spill rings... in what appears to be the exact same manner that Ultima coded back as early as 2005. It even goes off at the same velocity! That bugged me more than anything else when I was playing through this.

    The levels feel very cramped and forced. I couldn't move forward any faster than at a crawl, lest I wanted to run into spikes or some sort of enemy. Speed is almost non-existent until reaching the Star Light edit, which seems to be nothing but loops and speed booster a majority of the way through. Wide, easily-traverseable levels should be your priority, rather, considering the nature of how the character's moves encourage them to move quickly. The boss arenas also felt like cheap attempts to enhance the gameplay experience with a very poor turnout.

    The music seems to be largely pulled from other hacks—namely, the choices Mikel used in Zeta Overdrive—and generic S3&K and Sonic 3D tunes that everybody chooses to associate with a Sonic 1 level. Not only that, but several of the choices didn't even seem to fit; the SBZ3 music was so ridiculous that I started laughing uncontrollably. I mean... seriously? Come on. And dude. Your water level is Misty Maze. Seriously—I don't give a shit what you say, that shit is fucking blatant.

    I'm sorry, but this hack just seems to be a clusterfuck of content from other hacks, the most notable of which being Megamix. You can call me biased all you want for being the leader of Team Megamix, but I felt very little original content while playing this and it annoyed me more than anything else. You need a new game plan or something, dude, because this feels like "just another hack."

    Absolutely not. A ripoff is a ripoff, and you can be damn sure I will point it out if that's the vibe I get.
     
  2. Aquaslash

    Aquaslash

    <The Has-been Legend> Moderator
    Fair enough. It's just so many people did it that it seemed like bandwagoning.
     
  3. Jayextee

    Jayextee

    Monochrome Cat Game Guy™ Member
    3,227
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    Atro City
    I DONE MAKED GAMES.
    Bitch, please. (Ignoring that huge-ass menu. I forgot what the screenshot key was :psyduck:)

    [​IMG]

    I call it as I see it.
     
  4. muteKi

    muteKi

    Fuck it Member
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    I mean, I tried not to compare it rashly to Megamix, but when I saw that part of the level, I couldn't help it. There wasn't very much in that level that was unique and at the same time not annoying.
     
  5. The Moogs

    The Moogs

    Oldbie
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    The level design is horrible, a lot of it looks really lazy. The tubes are useless half the time, and enemy/ring placement makes the level too dangerous to play through swiftly. Here are five WTF RAEG moments.

    [​IMG]

    The rings would serve better of they were AHEAD of sonic, not ABOVE the Sign Post. I spindashed after spawning, and went right into the boss fight ringless.

    [​IMG]

    After hitting a wall, and having to backtrack and take a lift to progress, the lift pushed me in between a fucking rock. This is horrible object placement.

    [​IMG]

    These tubes can not be ran/rolled through while you are pressing right, and to pass through them you MUST hit a spring before them, and halfway through you slow down, and lose a lot of speed/momentum.

    [​IMG]

    Not only does this look ugly, it's a bitch to land in the tunnel. So landing on the sides of it usually happens, put in some kind of funnel for easier access.

    [​IMG]

    The tiles do not match, and looks pretty bad.

    There were quite a lot more moments that made me pretty miffed with this game. Try harder next time and test your levels better before releasing a version.

    Remember, it's constructive criticism, not hatred. This hacking community will never progress if these sort of issues can not be resolved and tested thoroughly before a release of a game.
     
  6. Arctides

    Arctides

    I am a bloated bag of hate. Oldbie
    There is a big difference between making a boss challenging and just making it outright impossible :|
     
  7. Aka Mekon

    Aka Mekon

    AKA The best Member
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    France
    No, I'm just sit on a chair =p
    So I have played this hack, and the first thing that came in my mind was the ring that came when you destroy a badnik that works like Megamix's one, like it was stolen. I am not saying that you stole code from Megamix (or maybe, who knows ?), but this is the impression I have. There are things like broken tiles (like the begging of a tunnel in the first act), the bad object placement, the first boss that is almost impossible to beat, the second zone being linear (but this may be because you haven't worked on the layout yet) that makes the hack less good.

    And, another thing, why everybody is calling MarkeyJester for help ? I don't hate him, but every time there is new art, new boss, new thing that seems complicated to do, this is done by MarkeyJester. Why don't you do things yourself ? If he is in your team, this is another story.

    And, last thing, I don't care if you or another person don't like what I said, I'm just saying constructive criticism.
     
  8. MarkeyJester

    MarkeyJester

    Nothing's Impossible Resident Jester
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    ok, allow me to go through the main aspect of it here, in one way I'm not happy that many people have matched redemption to Megamix, However, I'm pleased in another way, I explained the similarities and already stated to you Utopia back in November last year and even gave you a few unique ideas you could use insted, unfortunately with my bad connection in December I wasn't able to help you guys out, however you continued with your original stated idea and followed upon the Megamix line (c'mon you gotta admit that), after including countless amount of people to help on the hack, I'm not sure why no one had mensioned the similarities before (Including the beta Testers), plus with the amount of stuff you ported from S2 and S3 it made it hard to understand what was where.

    The point is, this hack could in fact be a very good hack if you guys just did more unique stuff and (Utopia, as you are the main Lead Designer in this hack) a set of different designs and well, I think you guys know what to do.

    The final point, sorry to trash you guys down, I know you have put hard work into the project but I think you need to strip your hack down and repatch it up to something more different and interesting.
     
  9. LordOfSquad

    LordOfSquad

    bobs over baghdad Member
    5,170
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    Winnipeg, MB
    making cool music no one gives a shit about
    And various others.
     
  10. iojnekns

    iojnekns

    trouble keeps you runnin' faster Member
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    After reading people pouring insults over this hack like it raped their cattle and stole their wives, I was expecting a real shit fest. I actually rather enjoyed it. Sure, it doesn't stand out as hack of the year or anything, but I don't see why this hack should be singled out for ridicule. Far from frustrating, I found the layouts relatively carefree - not too taxing but definitely not infuriating, I didn't die as a result of any cheap shots or under circumstances where I felt it wasn't my fault. I'm usually pretty quick to frustrate and anger, but that wasn't that case here.

    I also hate Sonic 1, you've done a good job of making, certainly the opening level, feel quick and light, and not the turgid, fetid, uphill crawl that the original one was. I think comparisons to megamix are justified, (that is Misty Maze) but I think there are a lot of other hacks with things in common with megamix where the dominant attitude is "don't compare this to megamix all the time, its a hack in its own right." If anything, this is major flattery, that most hackers are so hung up on that golden combination of elements that megamix brought together, that they feel they are vital to any hack they would put together. I'm not condoning unoriginality, just not condemning hero-worship.

    So yeah, to summarize, not actually a very bad hack. You're post clearly conveys that you have been working hard on this for a year, and I can definitely see evidence of effort, that you hope people enjoy playing, and that you've rushed things through to get a release in time for the contest, which I certainly appreciate, even if no-one else does. I accept that if things are rushed for a contest, there are going to be a few bugs, a few issues here and there. I can only imagine how heartbreaking it must be when you happily post, satisfied with yourself and people respond to this hard work by being curt, mean and dismissive under the guise of "constructive criticism." Its as though you've deliberately made a bad hack to spite them, and not toiled for hours trying to bring a little joy into their lives. There is at least one person out here that enjoyed what you did, even if it isn't spectacular. Good job.
     
  11. MarkeyJester

    MarkeyJester

    Nothing's Impossible Resident Jester
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    I was talking about the people who worked on it
     
  12. LordOfSquad

    LordOfSquad

    bobs over baghdad Member
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    Winnipeg, MB
    making cool music no one gives a shit about
    Maybe no one wanted to, out of fear of "bandwagoning?"
     
  13. MarkeyJester

    MarkeyJester

    Nothing's Impossible Resident Jester
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    ok, fair enough, but a simply personal conversation explaining the problem at hand would be better than saying nothing, but either way, it's turned out the way it did.
     
  14. PC2

    PC2

    GenMobile > 3DS Member
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    Various Artwork & Music, :smug:
    Am I the only one who actually enjoyed this hack? I love the artwork and palettes (most of them anyway), the music selection is nice, and to be honest, the level layouts in my opinion aren't that bad, but there are some things you need to watch out for. There's some flow issues in which you'll get some momentum going and then all of a sudden Sonic comes to a full stop, mainly noticeable in Radiant Plaza I guess, but in some other stages as well. Instead of using a box or spikes (or badnik swarms, in certain instances :psyduck:) to transition into a slow area, try using springs and slopes to slow Sonic down so that the player doesn't feel disappointed at the sudden loss of momentum. For instance, instead of making Sonic ram into a box with a spring on it, why not put the spring under the floor?

    Also try to go easy on the precision platforming, especially in a stage like Spring Yard Zone or Star Light Zone. Remember that this is a Sonic game, and it's hard to nail those jumps with all that speed. It's important to keep the momentum going, so even if there is any precision platforming, at least make it optional. For example, in Unleashed, you can just boost past areas like that. Try placing a fire shield or lightning shield in the area so you're not forcing the player to go through something that requires so much patience.

    Other than that, I personally like what I'm seeing. I don't mind the fact that it's got some similarities to Megamix - it's actually very good base to study from. There's nothing wrong with taking some inspiration from another hack. It would be nice to see what else you can come up with though, just to make things more interesting. Oddly enough, I really like the fact that you kept the original Sonic 1 invincibility/title theme. I really like a lot of the concepts. For a second it kind of bothered me that Robotnik takes more hits now, but the added challenge isn't so bad and makes things a little more interesting.

    Edit: Retracting a few of my previous complaints after playing a little more to figure certain areas out.
     
  15. Animemaster

    Animemaster

    Prison bitch! Member
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    UK
    Sonic 1 Revelation
    Guys, come on I mean I think that utopia has done a good job here in this hack. Ok people say look megamix look alike!, but heres something you guys should know. No matter what you do to the hack, guess what its owned by sega and the sonic team. Even if you done lots of work and sonic is not even in the game. You are still using sega's engine. I think this hack is really good, sure there are bugs here and there, but nothings perfect there will be a few bugs. I look forward for things to come in this hack. Good job UtopiaUK, I apreciate your hack:).
     
  16. Tweaker

    Tweaker

    Banned
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    I fail to see how this is relevant in any way whatsoever.
     
  17. Animemaster

    Animemaster

    Prison bitch! Member
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    Sonic 1 Revelation
    Well, all I mean to say is that, perhaps go easy on him? I mean can you imagin if sega came here and started moning about our hacks being like there games. I but understand how you feel tweaker, you put work into your hack and I understand when someone do things simular you jump to conclusion assuming its like megamix. Perhaps in the future, there will be less megamix and more unique. But as they say, its kinda hard to find some unique in a hack as a lot of ideas have been taken already.
     
  18. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    Why?

    They wouldn't. If they were to file any sort of complaint, it'd be over the fact that we're infringing upon a copyrighted property—not because a bunch of kids like making Sonic fan games.

    This is 100% bullshit every time someone says it. There are so many new, fresh ideas out there that haven't been explored or even considered that it absolutely blows my mind. Every single time I see a new hack come out with a unique concept, it frustrates and impresses me because I can't believe I hadn't thought of some of the things I see these guys come up with myself. There is some serious talent in this community and tons of potential directions to explore with a hack; there is literally no excuse for unoriginality.

    Honestly? I'll take a fantastic set of layouts over a hundred splash screens and tons of extra moves any day. That is what truly makes a hack—good level design. Not all of this bloated ASM crap. Granted, there's nothing inherently wrong with ASM changes, but most people simply make them without much regard for it actually making sense in the context of the new levels. This is why so many hacks fail in the field of originality—they all add the same ASM features, use the same art from the SCAA, and use the same music ports from S3K/S3D. It's old, it's tired, and it's not fun anymore.

    This hack has a ton of potential—I won't deny that. It just needs to explore a more unique direction so it can be its own game—not just "that hack that sort of looks like Megamix."
     
  19. Animemaster

    Animemaster

    Prison bitch! Member
    346
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    UK
    Sonic 1 Revelation
    Well It isn't easy for people to port games other than s3k/s3d. Its the easiest way for different music in sonic 1. I'm sure if everyone new how to use xm3smps/xm4smps, and porting perhaps from knuckles chaotix, ristar,moonwaler,hybrid front ect, they would. I can barely get knuckles chaotix music to work 100%, and ristar? forget about it. I do respect you and everyones opinion tweaker, I just don't want to feel like we are kicking a man when he is down, we don't want to loose hackers do we?. Thats what I wanted to say, nothing more.
     
  20. Tweaker

    Tweaker

    Banned
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    So because people don't know how to port from other games they have an excuse to be unoriginal? Are... are you serious? That's the worst excuse I've ever heard! You literally just tried to justify unoriginality by citing laziness or a lack of willingness to learn how to work with other widely available potential choices in music, thereby allowing a more diverse choice in music through which to port.

    You know what I did when I didn't know how to port music from a gane? I found out. I did my research, I used my noggin, and I found out exactly what I needed to know in order to achieve the results I desired. There is absolutely no reason you or anyone else can not do the same; hell, several people have done—and continue to do—exactly that! Don't expect sympathy just because you want to choose the lowest common denominator for an easy way out.

    He's not down at all. In fact, UtopiaUK is taking the criticism seriously and is already working on a drastic stylistic revamp. I have full confidence in his ability to help turn things around, so I'll definitely be watching in anticipation of forthcoming updates on this hack as they come to fruition.

    I'd also like to stress that I've been running this community in one way or another for about three years now. I think I know a little bit more about what kind of conduct can drive potential hackers away, thanks. ;)
     
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