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Sonic the Hedgehog Classic Release thread

Discussion in 'Fangaming Discussion' started by Hez, Mar 18, 2011.

  1. Namagem

    Namagem

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    Hez, I totally respect the work you've done here, and I don't want to negate your effort or anything, because the very fact that you managed to release a complete game speaks volumes, but I'd like to take this time to critique your game just a little.

    First, let's start on a positive note. The music, graphics, and overall aesthetics are amazing. I loved the graphics, and I loved the fact that all the art was either original, or a mashup/pallete edit of other levels, and it feels new and fresh. I also enjoyed the fact that there were so many different and unique special and bonus stages. The music's full of top notch remixes and music that sounds original (at least, I can't place it's origin). It is very clear a LOT of effort went into the aesthetics.

    I also enjoyed the variety in level gimmicks, and the original (for the most part) bosses were nice.

    Unfortunately, that's all I have to say that's positive.

    The movement physics just felt.. Off. Sonic accelerated too fast, was too heavy, and jumped too low.
    My primary gripe is that there are elements from other sonic games (primarily 3 and knuckes) that don't behave the way you expect from that game. The instashield has a tiny hitbox (if any additional hitbox) and is definitely NOT as large as the graphic for it. The peelout, while not changed too much, seems almost redundant in this game. There are level gimmicks taken from other games that don't work the way they do in the game they were taken from, and the Gumball Machine is WAY too fast, though this is due to the heavier-and-faster physics.

    The level design is way too hectic and platforming based. When there is ANY speed, you often get carreened into a pit or spikes if you don't take it JUST the way you intended. An example, in the Lava/Snow level (whose name I forget), there's a situation where you can get speed, and there's a badnik. My first couple times through, I would jump and hit this badnik, which sent me over the nearby pit of lava, where I bounced off another badnik and into a bottomless pit (that doesn't look like a pit, but I'll get into that later). This happened every time I tried that maneuver, not just because I didn't expect the pit. The acceleration and heaviness and level design makes you think you can do fast and cool stuff like that, and punishes you for it every time you try.

    Also, as has been said before, the levels lack any sort of flow. What I did above, if it had been planned for, would have been really cool, and would have made that section flow so much better; instead, I had to stop, take the badnik out carefully, and jump over a precarious lava pit with way-too-small platforms that sank into the lava, then take out another badnik. You make all sorts of designs that would be better off in a game where you moved slower and more deliberately, but it doesn't work very well with sonic.

    Object placement in levels is also not ideal. They seem to be placed with optimal "screw you" factor planned in. A bomb on top of a ramp with a small lip, with a bottomless pit underneath, for example, or spikes after an area where you'd be moving too fast to avoid them (I notice this one in a lot of fan games and hacks, actually. It's never, ever a good idea), or badniks in a spot where they're unavoidable. There's also a lot of speedbooster spam in areas you think the player should be moving fast in, when they are unneccesary. The player can move fast perfectly well on his own, and the speedboosters break any semblance of flow the speed sections would otherwise have.

    I'm also going to mention the fact that the levels are very, very hard to learn, because you are either focusing on not dying, or in one of the forced speed booster sections, or accidentally going to an area you don't mean to because you jump too high or too low or otherwise misjudge it.

    And what's with the Screw You trap area in Aquatic Arena, where you are forced to drown because there's no way out? The entrance is a 1-way platform, so you have to have planned that, but it is a massive, massive dick move. The entire game is full of dick moves, but that's the one that caused me to quit playing for a while (my second, actually.)

    I personally haven't run into the erase-your-save-data glitch yet, because I always get to an area where I say, Screw That, and because there doesn't appear to be any other way to force-quit, I alt-f4.

    This is my opinion so far, and it may change with further playing, but from what I've read, I don't think I will
     
  2. StephenUK

    StephenUK

    Liquor in the front, poker in the rear Tech Member
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    Quackshot Disassembly
    I have still got the conversion that I started, I was just waiting for a more complete version to be released before I started work on converting it all. I am back to hacking now, have been for the last couple of months but I've kept pretty quiet about the hack I'm working on, except for one pic. All will be revealed in time.
     
  3. Adamis

    Adamis

    Gimme waffles! Oldbie
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    Lammy and "Fafnir"
    I've beaten the game with two emeralds but I didn't get the "beat the game" achievement. Do I need to get the emeralds?
     
  4. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Nope cause I did that and I got nothing. I don't think it unlocks...
     
  5. Deef

    Deef

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    Perhaps it isn't possible. Perhaps it unlocks at the end of the credits, at which point the data is wiped anyway.
     
  6. TheKazeblade

    TheKazeblade

    "Our Life is More than a Side-Effect" Member
    It unlocks, but you have to quit the game during the credits in order to unlock it. Annoying, I know :/
     
  7. Deef

    Deef

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    Ok, beat it, unlocked it.
    What a cocktease. -_-
     
  8. Tichmall

    Tichmall

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    J.League PK Party, a "penalty kick" minigame.
    It was unlocked without any problem for me too. And I've never lost my save data after the first play. I don't know why it happens with some people and doesn't with others.

    The "75 challenges" secret still won't unlock though...
     
  9. Deef

    Deef

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    So I went to the options screen, lowered the music volume, changed the camera, and set monitors to SHIELDS.
    Return to title screen, press start.
    Immediately Dusty Dunes loads, no file select, nothing.

    Restart game, go to options screen, lowered the music volume, changed the camera, and set monitors to ???.
    Return to title screen, press start.
    Immediately Hazel Hills loads, no file select, nothing.

    In both cases, the "to-collect" counter was at 7. That is, 7 things to find, like the silver rings challenges.

    In the Hazel Hills case, once I found and completed the first special stage, the special stage entrance ring stayed permanently in Hazel Hills. I didn't have to look for a new giant ring because as soon as I finished a special stage I could just jump straight back in and do the next one.
     
  10. MegaDash

    MegaDash

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    Hmm. This game is sounding like a chore to fully enjoy. Maybe I'll just wait for Revision 1.

    Hell, I still remember those platforms in Hazel Hill Act 2 that killed me if I jumped from underneath. That put me off playing the demo after a single session. I know it's been fixed already, but still.
     
  11. Hez

    Hez

    Oldbie
    As of right now I'm just waiting to get as many glitches as I can before I release a revision. Half of these bugs never happened for me just for the simple fact I played the damn thing so many times I either got used to it, or was too good at the level to encounter it. I'll probably give it another week or too for REV01.

    Also, if you change any of the settings in the option menu besides volume and camera mode, it goes auto into no save mode. I probably should have mentioned that. Basically so you cant set all monitors to invincibility and beat the game. That wouldn't be any fun.
     
  12. SonicGenesis89

    SonicGenesis89

    Cool! Sweet! And Catchy! Member
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    Green Hill Zone
    Collecting Sonic Manga
    Ugh this game was very hard to enjoy to be honest. It has a lot of potential to be a good and enjoyable game but the thousands upon thousands of bugs and cheap deaths are making it more frustrating than fun. I got stuck at Luster Lake Zone at the boss....the air bubbles just don't come up enough for me and the movement is so stiff and slow. All of Sonic's movements feel very off and stiff as a board. The worst part, my save file didn't save my progress so I'm back at that other water level....which I was also stuck on for a long ass time because of those stupid speed boosters constantly bugging and having Sonic stuck running in place for hours on end. Jumping underneath moving platforms is instant death same for being in between moving platforms.

    Small areas Sonic got stuck and was unable to jump or move out of. Again it does have potential and some of the levels look really cool and I like some of the original badniks but all these glitches just ruins all the enjoyment. I hope they will all be fixed soon and also the music can start working for me because playing a game without any sound isn't very fun. Some level design choices I wasn't very fond of either and some of the level order seems odd to me. Also why so much water? Theres 2 Zones purely dedicated to being under water it just seems strange to me, plus Hazel Hills Act 2 also had a lot of water elements in it. I usually like the Sonic water levels but these two Zones were very tedious. I also see a strange up and down with difficulty between Zones, I found Dusty Dunes a lot easier than the level that came before it. The game just feels very broken....theres been many unfinished fan games that are less glitchy and more solid.

    I'm not trying to be harsh at all, I did like the game its just all these issues that others mentioned before and what I had issues with really really ruin the enjoyment. I felt more frustrated when playing then happy and enjoying it. In fact the water levels made me so mad I had to take breaks between playing because those speed boosters in the first water level are severely broken. I hope all of these issues will be fixed soon because I know I'll like this game a lot once its bug free and the physics are better.
     
  13. MarkoMan

    MarkoMan

    In memory of Dreds... Member
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    Sonic 2 Turbo
    So I've noticed that the Special Stages and the bonus stages don't slow down like the regular stages do... I also noticed that Death Egg has little to no slow down at all. It seems like the more "detailed" a stage is, the slower the game runs. I'm not sure if it's the number of objects or the details in the bgs, but that should be something to look into, if possible.

    I only get to save if I quit the game via Alt + F4. That's rather weird. Why won't the game simply save after every level? Something I feel should be looked into as well.

    Oftentimes I found myself getting frustrated with a given level, and I wanted to go back to the title screen to play a different character. As far as I can tell, couldn't do that because the Pause screen lacks options (as far as I know... maybe there's a button that leads to the options?) A pause interface, if possible, should be implemented.

    The only issue I really had with the physics is Sonic's jump. Momentum is in play, so it's automatically better than Sonic 4 in my opinion, but Sonic's jump definitely felt lower than I would have liked. Still, I feel like a lot of the game is designed around that jump, so... I dunno, that seems like it would take a lot of work to adjust the jump and then everything within the levels that it affects (I.e. bosses that Sonic's not supposed to hit).

    Insta-shield is hardly usable. As mentioned before, it doesn't seem to extend Sonic's hitbox, and more important, it doesn't give Sonic the split second of invincibility that I'm probably too used to abusing... or maybe the timing is different, as I was able to insta-shield land on spikes and lava, and then jump again, unharmed. Interesting, but I prefer my old insta-shield timing and getting punished for hitting lava/spikes.

    The level design didn't seem to be too bad in my opinion. Everyone is complaining about dick moves, but I'm pretty convinced that dick moves existed in the classics as well, and the only reason we don't notice it is because we know the levels like the back of our hands. There are, however, some wtf moments in the level design; there's a pit in Hazel Hills in the water that upsets me, there's a pit in Crystal Caverns that, if you're moving too fast, you auto-fall into like Robotnik actually constructed that part of the level, I hate Aqua Arena altogether, and there's this part in Luster Lakes that bothered me for a while... something about using that floating square thing twice, once for the switch and then the next time for the tunnel. But ultimately, I was rather pleased with the level layout. It was definitely more of an adventure than Sonic 4.

    Why am I consistently comparing this game to Sonic 4? Because outside of the lack of polish, this game is way better than Sonic 4 (or at least better than the single episode we've been presented with). It definitely needs work... there's got to be a way to make the game run at full speed consistently, and I think that Insta-shield could definitely be made slightly more accurate without making the bosses that much easier (because I think that many of the bosses would be much, much easier with the proper insta-shield).

    Overall, the game is good, but not solid. The potential is there for this to literally be a classic.

    Edit: I forgot to mention the music... Most of the music is awesome. Hazel Hills song is awesome, but possibly unfitting. I hate hate hate hate hate Aqua Arena's music, and everything about it. Fang's music is meh. Everything else is awesome.

    Is it me, or does Sound Test not have actual music in it? All I get is SFX, but I didn't go through all the sounds so...
     
  14. Kaiser

    Kaiser

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    Had a chance to play through most of it. Just on the last real level before the final zone methinks. I enjoyed the level design and I'm not sure why people were complaining of "dick moves" since the original Sonic and a few parts in Sonic 2 also had such areas (Scrap Brain anyone?). Maybe I just got lucky in how I traversed the levels in my first playthrough but I didn't encounter any place in the game that took longer then ten seconds to figure out or more then a single death. I think the design most closely resembles Sonic 1 in style with precision platforming and patience the key to finishing the game. The bosses are great and anyone complaining about the Crystal Caves or the Luster Lake bosses seriously needs to get better at playing Sonic. A Sonic fan game should be a bit challenging because the primary audience is hardcore Sonic fans who should be a cut above the casual player anyways. I encountered only a handful of glitches but they've already been mentioned by previous members so I won't bother reposting them here.

    I only have a few minor complaints so far.

    - Aqua Arena's music doesn't really suit a "water n' ruins" level IMO, reminds me of Spring Stadium music from the Genesis version of Sonic 3D Blast oddly enough.
    - I have too many lives. I've racked up over 30 lives so far and I'm on the last real level. Unless the last level and boss are ridiculously hard this might need to be tweaked.
    - Crystal Caverns, while not nearly as hard as people here are making it out to be, should not be the second level. I found the next two levels easier so some reordering might be in... order (:P).
     
  15. Titan

    Titan

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    I'm not sure why people wanted Hez to keep Aqua Arena and Luster Lake in, to be honest. That's the one thing that sticks out to me, that there are two levels with more or less the same theme.

    The vacant space could have been used for a pinball/casino type level instead, which is the one thing this game is lacking really. (in terms of zone tropes)
     
  16. steveswede

    steveswede

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    You honestly want a pinball type level with the wonky physics engine Hez has used. That's asking for trouble.
     
  17. TheInvisibleSun

    TheInvisibleSun

    OVER THE TOP TECHNO-BLAST Member
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    The Water
    I disagree; I think it fits the "Water Level" theme pretty well, and thus doesn't really need to satisfy the "Ruins" aspect to work. However, I do feel like the song is missing some percussion though...


    EDIT: Just found out some weird, but cool things.

    1) If you go to the Time Trials before you beat the levels, the Sonic 1 Level Names will show. After you beat the game, the proper level names from this game show.

    2) In the Level Select, the Sonic 1 Stages are shown, but when you choose one the "NO WAY!" screen shows up, except that it reads something like "this expansion is not available". After the screen pops up, the game subsequently force quits. Hez, didn't you say something about having the Sonic 1 stages as extra add-ons or something later on?

    Also, the Super Sonic SEGA screen is a nice touch by the way.
     
  18. Deef

    Deef

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    The physics are definitely not that bad. A bit different in places, a bit sloppy in others, but the general concepts mostly work at similar speeds. The physics interrupt play less than the camera, for example.
     
  19. steveswede

    steveswede

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    I never said they were "that bad". They are manageable, a nuisance sometimes when your trying to be precise when jumping. But a pinball level with these physics, I'd think sand in my ass would be a more pleasant experience.
     
  20. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    I'd rather have a pinball level in this game than with Sonic 4. Yet that didn't stop them didn't it?