Sonic the Hedgehog Cinematic Universe (now with open spoilers)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Dark Sonic, May 28, 2020.

  1. Nope

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    What exactly is this movie doing differently? This is just nostalgia baiting, it's the same thing they've already been doing
     
  2. Starduster

    Starduster

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    I think that’s selling the movie and the team behind it short, but I also think there’s an argument to be made that it’s easier for a movie to satisfy Sonic fans than it is for a game, since in the latter people want both the story/presentation to be nailed in addition to the gameplay, whereas the movie doesn’t have to worry about the X factor that is player interactivity. Not to say it takes an less effort, simply that it’s going to relate to people differently because of the different manner in which it’s consumed.
     
  3. Nope

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    I just fail to see how these movies are necessarily treating the IP with more respect seeing as they and the characters in them have fuck all to do with the character and the example being used is just a blatant nostalgia catch which is functionally not different from any of the other nostalgia Sonic Team has been doing.
     
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  4. Snowbound

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    General audiences only have a vague understanding of Sonic’s extended cast thus the characters need to be introduced. Referencing Knuckles and Tails’ game origins is a smart way to stay true to their characters. Sega on the other hand likes to reuse past levels while forgetting what made the gameplay special and how characters evolved. From the trailers people feel that Knuckles is closer to his original 3K portrayal instead of the Boom jock we’ve had the last decade. That said the film is not out yet so it’s kinda to early to definitely say that S2 is treating the characters better/the same/worse than Sega.
     
  5. Wildcat

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    The movie characters have nothing to do with the characters? Is that supposed to mean they’re too different? If so that’s just wrong. There’s bound to be differences in any game-to-movie adaptation but the representation has been wonderful. I’m not even referring to the redesign either.

    I’ve always wanted live action Sonic. Not a hybrid like Tom and Jerry. Pure live action. Seeing the first movie and the trailers for part 2 have given me exactly what I imagined in the 90s. Of course nobody could predict specific differences like Tom or Longclaw but there’s nothing wrong with stuff like that.

    I wouldn’t say the movies are treating the franchise better than Sega/Sonic Team. That’s a different discussion but they’ve clearly made the effort to treat it properly and take it seriously. How is it nostalgia when there’s never been live action Sonic movies? Because it uses things from the games? If it didn’t it would get criticized for changing things.
     
  6. Flare

    Flare

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    The difference I think people are labelling as more respect is more the public acknowledgement of their "mistakes". I think fans feel more respect when Movie Sonic showcase a change, because they are more public in showing changes due to feedback.

    Sonic Team of course will hear feedback but they are much more subtle in talking about it. That is of course fine.

    On the subject of nostalgia...

    I also feel that the movie team understand more about how to bait with nostalgia than Sonic Team (Not ST social because they do that much better... Maria drawing Heal Units from Shadow the Hedgehog! )

    Sonic Mania was probably the best of this, but compare that to Forces where the bait was... Chaos 0 you couldn't fight, Green Hill Zone again, and Classic Sonic again. It also didn't help that Forces had other issues that no Sanic tshirt could fix.
     
  7. I'm going to try and elaborate on my feelings as best as I can and why I feel that way.

    For me, it's a matter of expectations; the movie crew have only had a few years to work on Sonic, but have shown they're trying to understand it, at least on a surface level. Also, there's no expectation of gameplay that I have to worry about.

    Sega however have been managing Sonic for three decades, but have yet to really scratch his potential or capitalize on it.

    Its a lot easier for me to digest the movies because I can at least understand this is new territory for them, as opposed to the games that have had decades to get themselves together and just haven't for whatever reason.
     
  8. Nope

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    Does this excuse Sonic being a whiny pop culture referencing pooping machine or Knuckles being a humorless character? Like, looking at these things I literally can not fathom how someone could say these aspects are treating the source material with respect.

    It makes sense that it isn't that they aren't just baiting with hollow nostalgia, it's just that they're baiting with hollow nostalgia that one would prefer. Making excellently crafted 3d recreations of old levels means nothing. Why people can't just come out and say that instead of pretending these movies have more integrity than they actually do I just can't say
     
  9. corneliab

    corneliab

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    How about you just zip it with the pointless, condescending cynicism? Obviously the movies have successfully appealed to people even though you yourself are dead-set on appraising them in the most cynical, uncharitable ways possible. There's a latent appeal in seeing a property you like being brought to the big screen, and at the same time there is a lot of wiggle-room afforded to these things in terms of the direction taken (and people understand that). Trying to frame the conversation as "hollow nostalgia, no integrity, people are lying to themselves" only makes you look like a jackass that shouldn't be acknowledged.
     
  10. Nope

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    This does not equate to treating the series with any respect or integrity in particular, which is what I'm talking about. Two extremely similar forms of nostalgia better than the other? I don't see it
     
  11. Linkabel

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    The Sonic 2 happy meal promotion has already started in Indonesia.

    From what I remember it should start in the U.S. after the Mario Kart promotion ends.
     
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  12. Get over yourself lmao. You sound so upset that a product that you have no interest in has found an audience with people.

    Its not that serious my guy, some things just aren't going to appeal to you and that's ok. But trying to frame this as if everyone else being out of touch is so off base my guy. You're unironically behaving like this Simpson meme.

    You don't need to get this upset over a children's movie.
     
  13. The KKM

    The KKM

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    Are you literally just going "shut uuuup I like it stop being negative about iiiiit"? Come on.

    The movie has changed the characters, not just in design but in characterisation. The plot is entirely different. The setting is entirely different. The themes are entirely different. This is not Sonic as has been presented for decades but a new character with only the vaguest brushstrokes of being the same character.

    You can acknowledge all this and still go "but I like what they did, and they appeal to enough nostalgic strings that I like it", without having to go on a ridiculous "they treat the franchise with more respect!" tirade when that's just patently not true. Changing everything and then making references to old lore isn't "treating the franchise with more respect", it's just yet another adaptation as hollywood makes them dime-a-dozen.

    Like, it's not hard. Nope isn't saying you can't like the movie and its changes. Nope is asking you to not delude yourself into treating these movies as more than they are. They're kids movies that grabbed source material, radically changed it, then pushed those changes just a smidge back enough to get positive reaction, and then sprinkled references for an appearance of authenticity. And that isn't bad in and of itself, tons of adaptations do this. But don't treat it as more than it is.

    Let's put it another way. If a poster referencing the Sonic 2 poster is "more faithful to the franchise than Sonic Team has done for 20 years", what is rewriting Sonic entirely? Is a poster a more important part of the franchise than the characters? Or on the other hand, would the Bayformer movies suddenly become " more faithful to the franchise" just because they might refer to the "More than meets the eye" tagline at some point?

    Like, come on. Just have some perspective, PLEASE. Like the movie and the branch franchise all you want. We're not telling you to not do that. We're telling you people that when you go WOW THEY REFERENCED THE THING I LIKE, THIS IS BETTER THAN THE PAST DECADES OF FRANCHISE, you look ridiculous.
     
  14. I already explained my point sooooo.

    Its not that I think this movie is doing wholly better than the rest of the franchise, just that it's doing better at the specific thing that its meant to do and that the other thing isn't.

    Saying the movie is doing good and the games aren't isn't saying the movies are better, its stating a fact. The movie is doing good based on public reception while the games aren't, based on their own public reception.

    If it bothers you that much to see people praise the movies over the games, then your anger is severely misplaced. If you want to direct your anger at how the games branch of the Sonic brand has been handled, then do it at the people who are running said branch as opposed to the people who are just enjoying a product.



    Sometimes I hate multimedia franchises because there's always division like this over nothing...
     
  15. The KKM

    The KKM

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    I don't have anger at that? I'm just saying it's ridiculous to act like the movie is a super faithful great homage to the franchise and the games are bad at the same thing, because... the movie did a Sonic 2 poster reference?

    Like, please understand what you yourself are describing- "oh it's ok when the movie does it because they're outsiders anyway and only had a few years and look, they're referencing this and that!" but then the games doing something like Generations is "didn't live to full potential, bad, crap", come on.

    Again, not saying you have to dislike the movies. And I'm not criticising the games. So don't go pulling that. I'm saying you're going "nostalgia good when movie does, nostalgia bad when games does" and I'm asking you to acknowledge that this is entirely just you being happy with the nostalgia one does, and not with the nostalgia the other does, and not down to "ugh they're so terrible with Sonic".

    You're saying "I hate multimedia franchises because there's always division like this over nothing"- you're the one introducing the division in the first place my fellow user!

    I'm not angry at you for liking the movie or whatever you're thinking. I'm saying that Nope was correct in being confused at you going "sigh, the creators of the movie have more respect for the franchise than the creators have had for 20 years" over seeing them do a Sonic 2 reference. It's just nostalgia baiting. It's not inherently bad nor good, but to go GAWRSH THIS IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN 20 YEARS OF THE GAMES over it? Come on.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2022
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  16. So, even after I explained my feelings on the matter, you're essentially choosing to ignore that and decided to have your own interpretation of my words that aligns with your personal feelings....


    Have a nice day man, I don't think this is a conversation worth continuing if that's the route we're going.
     
  17. MykonosFan

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    This tangent is going nowhere fast, so yes, let's cut it here please.
     
  18. In more relevant news, new poster baby. 20220318_171614.jpg
     
  19. MH MD

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    That's like every sonic game right now lol, don't even try to say that the sonic 1 has the same character and setting as Sonic adventure 2, it's a new character and setting, and that's only one example, it's not the same character and setting for "decades" , so trying to point this against the movie is so silly
     
  20. Azookara

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    I'm not sure why acknowledging the movies are really different from the games requires the amount of vitriol it is getting here.

    I don't really care if you like it more or not, it's not really better at consistency, or demonstrating what Sonic is (or even was, if you're picky). Maybe the movie's consistency with itself matters to you guys? But the movies don't really represent anything the games have done; it's just as 'off' of an adaptation as most of the multimedia takes on this franchise.

    And if you're cool with that, cool. It's fine if you like the movies, in the same way as you like SatAM, StC or Boom or whatever; they're likeable in their own regards. But it doesn't make them any more similar to the games they spawn from, and it doesn't invalidate people who dislike it for those reasons.

    Also, the games are definitely not as dissimilar to each other as those are. Acknowledging the contrast in Sonic 1 to SA2 is ignoring the progression from one point to the other, and just feels like a "gotcha" cop-out. The Genesis games still happened as they were, a lot of the character dynamics are the same, and the mythology of the Chaos Emeralds and all that are still assumed the same. There are gaps, yes, but that doesn't stop it. SA2 being different in tone or setup doesn't erase that the games that preceded it still lay the foundation or how they still follow it.

    Sorry for continuing this, but man I just thought that the convo had was unnecessarily one-sided and condescending. Feel free to ignore, I guess.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2022
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