Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Ultrared, Jul 2, 2019.
I NORMALLY don't hate the reusing of graphics (I'm as guilty as anyone). BUT for this projects case, I'd expect to see all new graphics. At the very minimum, none reused from Sonic 2. Since you don't see this at all in Sonic 2.
Asset sharing was an all or nothing thing in Sonic 2. Either it reused ALL assets with very minor changes (See CPZ/DEZ and EHZ/HTZ), or non at all.
Sorry, people. I meant to reply much sooner, but like many trial members, I lost my posting privileges with the forum upgrade. They just fixed the issue, so I can finally post again.
I'm currently recreating the scrapped desert zone. Here's a mockup showing what the art looks like right now, next to the official mockup for comparison:
It's not based on any prior fan recreations. Keep in mind that the colors should look a bit different in the actual hack. Also, the art isn't final yet. Some parts still need some work, like that platform on the right.
Not sure what you're specifically referring to. If you're asking what I'll base the rest of the level art and objects on, I'll try to come up with stuff that fits the level themes.
If you're asking what I'll base the level layouts on, I'll be using custom layouts, of course. The final levels may not even match the layouts from the concept art at all. I just designed the current levels and mockups around them in order to facilitate comparisons.
Actually, the darker mountain wasn't supposed to be shaded. I just intended for it to be brown, rather than the color of the foreground, just like the brown mountains in the Hill Top BG. I thought it would make the graphics look more vibrant that way, and emphasize the notion that it's the border of a separate section of the island, disconnected from the zone's main area. BTW, note that the mountain actually uses the same palette as the palmtrees in both instances.
Anyways, I understand why you people think I should go with custom art, and make it fit the style of the foreground. I'll get back to working on that zone later.
I definitely see where you're coming from. I do try to use custom or heavily edited art for the most part. But in instances where I felt the custom art wasn't up to snuff, rather than staying stuck, I lifted some art from the games and moved on, leaving the option of changing it later, especially if people dislike it. Nothing is set in stone.
I would like to note, however, that even the official games recycled art on occasion, and I'm not talking about EHZ/HTZ or CPZ/DEZ. Examples that come to mind are Marble Zone (GHZ grass), the Sonic 2 ending (SCZ/WFZ clouds), and the planned desert zone (GHZ clouds, assuming they weren't just placeholders in the mockup). So if I'm to be faithful to the desert zone's official art, recycling of graphics is unavoidable.
That's a beautiful DHZ mockup, and I'm excited to see you doing an original effort. My dream is to have a Dust Hill themed living room one day soon :3
Not a bad reconstruction of Dust Hill there~
I've not much to say in the project's current state, so keep it up!
I gotta say.
That's a sexy Dust Hill remake. I like that the sand actually looks pretty accurate and that the cactus follows the sort of low poly, flat shaded aesthetic. Also, I like the palette of the wall and rock platform on the right.
Overall, this is pretty solid.
That looks identical. I wouldn't be surprised if someone thought it was a higher quality screen.
Oh yes, I've actually been waiting for someone to take on all these concept zones since they were revealed lmao. Excited to see what comes of this.
Wow, this looks amazing and I’m looking forward to it. It’s really good to see someone work on things we’ve never and would probably never see in-game if it weren’t for you!
This looks promising. I'm always looking forward to 2D Sonic hacks since I have no interest in the 3D games.
2D hacks have been dying down tremendously in quantity and quality for years now. Keep it up and don't give up on this. Don't take too long with it but don't rush it either.
Out of curiosity, what is your level of experience with ROM hacking? This project seems very ambitious but it really needs the hacking chops to back it up. If you're not so good, I think your art and concepts are good enough to attract someone that does have the skills to take on such a big project.
If it's too much, there's always the GM engine route/MMF2 although that requires paying money for the program and using an existing engine that you can tweak.
Though that means porting Sonic 2's assets:
-Easy: Have plenty of sprite and sound resources. Menu creation from scratch.
-Medium: Have the maps to add as a background to recreate Sonic 2's levels. Tweaking physics.
-Hard: Ripping or converting level tiles into pieces and placing it there including recreating gimmicks not found in Sonic Engines and then adding the Past Mechanic with MMF2/GM's code.
And a lot of stuff not mentioned that I've missed.
In any case, I'd be interested in making some past music myself, although not through a sound driver because I don't have any interest learning it but through VOPM (Have basic music.
Then someone can take those tunes and convert it to SMPS or the sound driver of choice.
Regarding the above post, I would advise you stick to your guns and see this all the way through as a hack. Switching to a fangame engine would be cutting corners; while working with the Sonic engine on the Mega Drive imposes more limitations, if you stick to it long enough, you'll obtain authentic results, and ultimately, much more satisfaction in your work.
It looks great. I know it's really early on but I would love to see it in action. I may not be a great artist and everyone has different tastes, but I like how the stages are looking. Keep it up.
So I have been mulling over this one for a while and I finally think I’ve found the right word to use: ambitious. I think it looks early, but it looks good. It is ambitious in scope. I hope this doesn’t fall by the wayside. Ocean Breeze or whatever it is looks really sharp.
Oh, wait. It looks like @Hez already used the word “ambitious”. But, it is. Ambitious is good, though. Keep up the work on this and keep making original graphics. Keep polishing it. This could go far.
As has been said already, try to not use preexisting sprites/assets. I get bleary-eyed all the times I’m playing a really great Super Mario World hack and suddenly I’m faced with a repurposed background from a Sonic game, or a background from Donkey Kong Country, or from other games. This goes for the music, too. A couple of my fave SMW hacks do this and it is jarring for me. It appears you are going for originality with the graphics and that warrants all my respect.
Yes, I totally agree on this. It would be kinda bad to use pre-existing assets and graphics. I would even suggest creating completely new objects and badniks even if it’s just 3 or 4 new ones.
I don't have near as much of a problem with reused assets as long as they aren't from Sonic 1 or 2, and they're changed/blended well enough I don't notice. Having something from Super Mario World in there is a blatant artwork miss match and would stick out like a sore thumb. Now if you took something like a palm tree from Sonic 3's two player level and heavily modified it, I wouldn't have as much of a problem. Hope that makes sense.
Once again, thank you for the kind words and encouragement. Sadly I don't have anything new to show right now, other than OWZ getting new grass. It should look something like this:
Some work went into the art for other zones as well, but I would like to keep some surprises in store for the actual releases.
Well, I do have experience with level design in 2d platformers. Not necessarily Sonic-specific, but I've been a Sonic fan for decades, and the level design in the MD games (and Sonic Mania) is one of my favorite parts of the series. So I'll try to be faithful to the classic games' play style and level design.
I'm guessing you were mainly referring to the technical aspect of ROM hacking, though. That's actually my weakness, as my ASM skills are very limited right now. So I should start asking better coders for help at some point.
I knew from the beginning that I would need help with the implementation of stuff like new features, enemies and cutscenes, but I thought that just dropping in and going "Hey guys, I'm planning to undertake this big project. Who wants to do the coding?" would be a terrible idea. So I figured it would be better to produce a release with some levels on my own before asking for help. That way I would show that I'm serious.
That said, if anyone feels like helping out with the coding (or just anything) before the initial release, they're more than welcome.
Ah, yes, the option of converting the project into a fangame was always plan B. I have faith I won't have to resort to that, though.
Really? Thank you, I'd really appreciate that. Just shot you a PM on the matter.
Regarding badniks, the plan is to implement as many scrapped Sonic 2 enemies as possible. The objects and level gimmicks should also be new.
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