Sonic Team: Sonic Adventure 3 may never happen

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by 360, Sep 20, 2017.

  1. Overlord

    Overlord

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    'nuff said
     
  2. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    Sonic Adventure = Sonic Adventure
    Sonic Adventure 2 = Sonic Advenure 2
    Sonic Heroes = Sonic Adventure CD
    Shadow the Hedgehog = Sonic Adventure Chaotix
    Sonic '06 = Sonic Adventure 3 & Knuckles

    Sonic Advance = Sonic Adventure (8-bit)
    Sonic Advance 2 = Sonic Adventure 2 (8-bit)
    Sonic Advance 3 = Sonic Adventure & Tails / Sonic Adventure Chaos
    Sonic Rush = Sonic Adventure & Tails 2 / Sonic Adventure Triple Trouble
    Sonic Rush Adventure = Sonic Adventure Blast

    Sonic Shuffle = Dr Robotnik's Adventure Mean Bean Machine
    Sonic Pinball Party = Sonic Adventure Spinball
    Sonic Riders = Sonic Adventure Drift
    Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity = Sonic Adventure Drift 2

    There, sorted. Can we put this to rest now?
     
  3. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Sure it does. The two Sonic Adventures have clear elements that are consistent between them. A bunch of playable characters with their own gameplay style to the point some of them could be considered a different genre. Bosses that are randomly placed between levels with no set pattern, being determined by the story. Chao Gardens. Emblems. Completely different level order/set per character/story.

    Sure, a few other 3d Sonics had some of those elements, but not all of them. And most had a completely different general structure. Heroes was closer to the classic games than the Adventure series, with its minimalistic story, the inclusion of special stages for getting Chaos Emeralds, characters that used the same play style and went through the same levels with only small variations, and bosses placed every two stages. The only game you could maybe call a Sonic Adventure in all but name is Sonic '06, and even that one was missing the Chao Gardens.

    Because of that, I don't get people who say "I want a Sonic Adventure 3 that has only the speed levels". It wouldn't be a Sonic Adventure in that case.
     
  4. Zephyr

    Zephyr

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    And yet, like Adventure 2, it features stages suspended over bottomless pits and filled with speed boosters (both regardless of the level theme), grind rails, light dash segments, and homing attack segments. The actual content of the gameplay is a clear evolution of the speed gameplay from SA2 (and I'd say it evolves in a poor direction, so I can see why many want to "create a new branch in the timeline" after 2001, so to speak), even if the superficialities of its organization and presentation are more reminiscent of the classic games. Shadow and 06 continue this gameplay evolution.

    The Boost gameplay feels like a further evolution; a marriage of this gameplay formula with the janky mach speed sections of 06, miraculously reaching a level of polish not seen since 2001. Unfortunately, it's polished into something completely alien. Actual platforming is now awkward and blocky at best (and largely segregated to 2D sections), and so the game shines when you're:
    - playing an HD on-foot version of this Happy Meal Toy from 2003 (feels like filler content, but would at least make for a cool Bonus Stage or Special Stage):
    [​IMG]
    - rocketing from Speed Booster to Spring to Floating Ring to Grind Rail with minimal input (feels like filler content)
    - playing sections not even trying to disguise their nature as a Quick Time Events (obvious filler content)
    - activating your NOS and drifting around corners like a racing game (the primary aspect I'd like to see take center stage going forward)

    It feels like a really polished Frankenstein's Monster. I'd rather it give up on its platforming pretensions and Special Stage-esque gameplay components and obvious filler bits; because although they've managed to make all of these different pieces gel seamlessly, I still think most of it is either hollow style-over-substance setpieces, out of place Special Stage gameplay, and mediocre 2D platforming, holding back the high octane racing game that it could be. The Boost gameplay is already quite removed from the Adventure style, but if they went where I would go with it, it'd be even further removed.

    Under either scenario, I can kind of see why Sonic Team proper would be hesitant to make a Sonic Adventure 3. They couldn't make a direct follow-up to Sonic Adventure 2 if they tried. Where they're at from a creative standpoint is too far removed. I think they recognize that, and so I respect their aversion to the idea. I don't think there's anything there to indicate that they're opposed to a different team taking up that mantle. Given the breadth of knowledge and talent on display in Generations and Forces, I'm thankful they never attempted a Sonic 4. Bless them for passing that baton to a different team, but it was disappointing that said different team was no more qualified (but now Mania exists, and that's largely been rectified). I hope that when the time comes that they bite the bullet and pull the trigger on "Sonic Adventure 3" (and it will happen some day, it's beyond confirmed that there's nothing they won't resort to), they have a Mania Team, rather than a Dimps, to give the reigns to.
     
  5. tylerfoxorwhatever

    tylerfoxorwhatever

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    What are you guys talking about? There was a sequel to the Adventure games years ago, but it was so good that they skipped 4 entries:

    [​IMG]
     
  6. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    Jack shit.
    Isn't that Sonic Jam 6?
     
  7. tylerfoxorwhatever

    tylerfoxorwhatever

    Better known as MontiP Member
    Nope. Sonic Jam 6 is a hack of Mario All-Stars on the Mega Drive: http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_Jam_6

    Sonic Adventure 7 is kind of its own thing: http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_Adventure_7
     
  8. Pretty drunk so take with pinch of salt

    For me modern Sonic is so buggered now that I don't really care. I don't trust anyone outside of the mania team to handle sonic. I'd buy a SA3 if it was close in spirit with SA1 but with much better flow/physics and no human world bullshit. Actually without most of it. Couldn't give a gibbon's turd about SA2 - Snowboarding down a human street to fucking shit awful cheese dad runk killed it. Ironically shit awful cheese dad runk is a Sonic staple now. Maybe it's US thing. Only 2 people like that shit these days. 12 year old grebs & depressed married too young 35 year old's driving their kids to school in fucking stupid huge 4by4's that have never seen a bit of mud trying to relive their blink 182 glory days and run everyone over in the process. Give me rave music. Give it to me now. America (admittedly 20 years late) has finally embraced dance music, so Sonic team there is no more excuse for your ballsack shredding. I don't care if people say they like it, they are wrong.
    Give me more Classic give it to me now

    Might delete this tomorrow
     
  9. Laughingcow

    Laughingcow

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    Saved for posterity.

    As expected, everything broke down because "one true Sonic Adventure 3"
     
  10. Rockman Zero

    Rockman Zero

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    Some discussion circles are calling Iizuka a hypocrite because they claim Sonic Mania was a step back. I can see why, but it delivered what Sonic 4 failed at and then some by taking one step backward and two steps forward: improving the momentum gameplay with the dropdash, longer levels, a Saturn-styled experience.

    Parroting what everyone else said: the Sonic Adventure games have not aged well, and multiple gameplay styles that are vast departures from 'Sonic gameplay' should not be seen as 'good' or high quality gameplay.

    I would love for Iizuka to give Taxman his blessing of making a sequel to Mania though, just to see where the old Classic formula could go from Mania. A Metroidvania of sorts with switchable characters?
     
  11. Frostav

    Frostav

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    What weird world did you come from where SA2's soundtrack isn't adored and Escape from the City isn't one of the most fondly remembered video game songs of all time?
     
  12. TheKazeblade

    TheKazeblade

    "Our Life is More than a Side-Effect" Member
    I certainly hope that the rationale behind it isn't because of Mania being a retro 2D approach, but because of the forced adherence to old zones. Because in that regard, his statements certainly are hypocritical.

    He claims to be moving the series forward, but every decision he seems to be making as the head of Sonic Team currently is adhering to the glory days either for sake of nostalgic value or in some vain attempt of posterity.

    Sonic Mania had the opportunity to be something completely new and unique, but Iizuka made the stipulation that old zones either as a selling point or because he wants to make sure Sonic Team doesn't look worse by comparison; using the franchise's legacy as a limiter. Fortunately, the points that Mania adhered most to the old titles is where it was the weakest; the new ideas and refreshing takes on the old zones exceeded them in terms of quality by a landslide.

    And whatever "new direction" he is attempting to take the series clearly hasn't been actually decided on yet because Forces has no direction. It attempts EVERY direction in the hope that doing so will appeal to enough people to hide the fact that the game itself is actually a trainwreck. But they will obtain no usable feedback to determine the direction they ought to go from here except for "People got really excited that we announced Shadow," but knowing Sonic Team, they will stop digging there.

    This is all going to seem hilarious when he backpedals on this in a few years same way as they did with Classic Sonic.
     
  13. Frostav

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    You know what I meant. The Sonic/Shadow gameplay of the Adventure series is markedly different from later Sonic gameplay, namely in that the Adventure series was the only time Sonic Team ever even attempted to translate classic Sonic's gameplay into 3D. There was excess automation, yes. Momentum physics were a jank and less prevalent, yes. But they were THERE at all. Sonic and Shadow actually did interact with the environment and you could do stuff like spindash to gain high speed and fly off of slopes. SA1 even attempted to have wide levels with some slight alternate routes, though SA2 abandoned this design for that fucking annoying "racetrack over a bottomless pit" design that every single Sonic game since has adapted, only slightly alleviated in Generations (which still suffers from the problem).

    I don't trust Sonic Team to actually do what I suggest, granted. They seem absolutely fucking incapable of making a decent physics engine.
     
  14. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Pretty sure it's both the retro Mega Drive style and the reuse of old zones.

    Sonic Mania was never intended to be "something completely new and unique"; it was conceived as a return to the classic formula and style, even with all the creativity Taxman and co put into it. And if Iizuka was afraid of Sonic Team being made look bad by the Mania team, why would he greenlight Sonic Mania?
     
  15. Only remembered because it's so crap. So bad it's good is not good enough
     
  16. Frostav

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    Bro the love for that song is all unironic, same with the knuckles raps lmao

    I earnestly unironically want Hunnid-P to do vocals for a knuckles-exclusive stage in Mania 2 like Mirage Saloon :specialed:
     
  17. Laughingcow

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    Just a thought, if a hypothetical Sonic Adventure 3 were to be developed, should the target console be the Dreamcast? I mean, that's the only thing I can think of that makes the first two unique from the later games.
     
  18. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    Oh yeah because 'making one stage' means complete understanding of the 3D sonic formula and how to make a game and actually make it sell lol.
     
  19. Frostav

    Frostav

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    The most important part of a game is its mechanics, second being its presentation (music, graphics, etc.) Are you really going to tell me that you think any Sonic Game post 3&K has physics and control as fleshed out as Utopia?

    Like bro I fucking love SA2 to death, I bought that fucking game 4 times and put over like 50 hours into the chao garden and played it front to back but that game is pretty jank. Heroes and its derivatives were horrendously slippery yet stiff and all the boost games are mechanically sound but extremely shallow due to the complete lack of momentum physics.
     
  20. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    That game just looks like a Sandbox mode, like if someone made Sonic Robo Blast 2 into a PS3 game. That's it. Not a game. A big, pretty test level.
    Sonic games are vertically big, but horizontally linear, it has to be that way otherwise you'll get a Mario 64 level with a lot of padding so you can have the sense of speed.

    The best atempt they had in that direction was actually Sonic Lost World but due to the bad level design oh the later levels, the game was a failure.