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Sonic Superstars: A New 2D Sonic Game (Fall 2023)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by DefinitiveDubs, Jun 8, 2023.

  1. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    Yeah the whole article is about SEGA and it's reputation. Sales numbers are not brought up. The only numbers discussed are about cost cutting, which they don't want to do anymore.

    I'm only speaking for me here so I don't know what the other guys have. I have no skin in this game. I don't own SEGA stock. I haven't even played this game. I just like looking at reports and numbers.
     
  2. Snub-n0zeMunkey

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    The general reception to Superstars I've seen from fans (mostly twitter) is so bizarre, it's such an okay game that gets exaggerated and spoken about as if it's pure dogshit. I worry about what kind of lessons SEGA will take from this, I'd still like to see them continue with 2D classic Sonic games.
     
  3. Sneasy

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    On Twitter, people try to twist Sonic Frontiers into a failure and want to claim that Sonic Racing CrossWorlds is already bad because it's not a sequel to Sonic R.

    Twitter is garbage... in general, but that also translate to awful Sonic discussion, which was already really annoying.

    It's clear even today that Sega expected figures similar to Frontiers for Superstars and they didn't get that. I wouldn't expect this to impact Classic Sonic games, but they'll either keep it as a special occasion or do something more innovative with the next one.
     
  4. Crimson Neo

    Crimson Neo

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    Now people are claiming it's peak lmao (I mean, good for them on that I guess).
     
  5. Snub-n0zeMunkey

    Snub-n0zeMunkey

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    the weirdest thing I've seen lately is sonic fans manufacturing a bizarre intergenerational warfare between Millennials who like classic Sonic and Gen Z who like modern Sonic and are competing for SEGA's attention like "no don't give them what they want, only give me what I want!!". I'm just sat here like... idk I like both classic and modern I think they can easily co-exist :/
     
  6. Sneasy

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    A lot of Sonic fans genuinely struggle with the idea of there being a "Sonic" that's not specifically for them. They for some reason believe it's mutually exclusive, even though we are living in the most "multimedia" Sonic era since the start of Sonic X, and believe, or demand, that forms of Sonic that is not for them must not exist at all. This of course mutates into gatekeeping, and I'd say this is also where the sheer obsession over shit like Sonic's quill length or muzzle curves or all the fans saying you "don't understand Sonic" if you like anything that's not "JP Sonic" comes from. Entitlement and a sense of ownership they think is slipping away because of, ironically, Sonic's newfound, genuine success.

    We're talking about Superstars' relative or possible failure but the fact that Sega is simply "yeah, it didn't sell like we want. Oh well, we'll make a game that sells more next time" should please fans who are concerned that this would lessen the variety of Sonic.
     
  7. Technically Inept

    Technically Inept

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    Claiming?
     
  8. Chimes

    Chimes

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    Twitter =/= reality
     
  9. Beltway

    Beltway

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    Artwork and looking for post-grad work...
    I'm of the thought that Mania was kinda doomed to being this by virtue of it chiefly being a "Greatest Hits" concept to begin with, especially seeing how this was the exact scenario we saw play out with Generations (if anything, the lack of plot there was much more startling, given its more story-driven predecessors/successors). I said this somewhere else, but it's also what makes the whole Phantom Ruby element a double-edged sword, where any and all changes done to the environments are trivial explanations in a good and bad way.

    And I don't doubt that you could still write a compelling narrative for a game set around a Greatest Hits concept, but it's also clear that the developers didn't have the resources to do so--the developers have talked about ideas for certain story elements and levels they originally picked to remix; that didn't make it to the final release. Never mind that Mania didn't even launch with S3K level transitions for every zone, originally. So with that in mind, I'm not really compelled to argue in favor of Mania's narrative when put against the other MD titles; but I'm also not motivated to really take it to task for its shortcomings either.

    --

    In light of the recent news, I'd really want to believe that Sega's CEO admitting that Superstars was a disappointment in respect to quality is a. an admittance that they could had made a better MD Sonic game and want to do better next time, and b. there will actually be aa "next time" to begin with; but it still feels like a pretty forlorn hope. In the current environment where Superstars has faded into the background, while other Sonic products are proudly-declared commercial hits; it is way too easy to envision them giving up on MD Sonic gameplay again, like how ST did after Sonic 4.

    To me, the best thing that Sega could do for a new MD Sonic is get someone else in the producer's chair and give them the necessary resources they need to make the modern landmark release the playstyle deserves. Superstars is a monkey's paw scenario where the right decision was made after Mania's performance (make the first major 2D Sonic release in decades); but the wrong management was put in charge to produce it, and they in turn reached out to mediocre developers to build the final product. Sega needs to try again, but have the type of people directly responsible for Mania (or Mario Wonder, for comparison's sake) setting the parameters and selecting the talent.
     
  10. MykonosFan

    MykonosFan

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    I just wanted to touch on this and provide the quote in context for all of our references.
    https://www.eurogamer.net/putting-t...ame-rock-roll-compared-to-nintendos-pop-music

    It reads much more like the sales being a disappointment compared to the quality they felt they delivered. Not to kick the can on Superstars' sales numbers even more, just to make sure the context is clear regarding their president's thoughts.

    EDIT: This was on the last page oops. Worth sharing again I guess :eng99:
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2024
  11. Battons

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    Even so, I’d argue it started as far back as Sonic 4, as it pissed enough people off to demand a “true sequel” to the classic games. Pretty sure that was a common belief back then.
     
  12. Volphied

    Volphied

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    The absolutely worst thing about this news is that I absolutely love Trip, but now SEGA will most likely shelf her next to Marine. :(
     
  13. Johndough

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    Seems like the perfect time for me to come out and say that I don't believe "classic" Sonic and "modern" Sonic can just peacefully co-exist with no comprises. The production costs and the time that goes into making games cannot be ignored. For every "classic" Sonic game that exists (namely Sonic Superstars in this case. We don't need to count Sonic Mania), there's a "modern" Sonic game that could've been in its place.

    Frankly speaking, I think the "classic" Sonic revival has had a direct impact on us not getting 2D "modern" Sonic games anymore. It wouldn't be such a problem if it was just an artstyle change, but the "classic" brand is so horribly strict, limited and uncreative. Rarely for the better, and usually for the worse.

    Not saying a "modern" 2D game would suddenly be a bigger success, but as a big fan of the Advance and Rush series, it is something that I sorely miss, in all their "unique 2D platforming mechanics and whimsical charm" (if you know, you know).

    Feels a little weird to be saying all this in SonicRetro of all places lol, but might as well. I think the 90s Sonic design could have been revived in a better way. I never felt the "classic" brand has been really anything like what Sonic was in that era. In it's efforts to be so different from the main brand, it lost a lot of that edge and coolness that they both shared.

    Edit: I should pre-emptively respond to this since I feel it will come up: Some might argue that 2D "modern" games stopped because their quality dipped and they stopped selling as well over time. To that I simply say: Now it's "classic"'s turn to on the receiving end of diminishing returns.
     
  14. That interview was interesting. I enjoy the distinction he draws between Sega’s and Nintendo’s approaches. I’ve described them in similar ways before. I think I said Sega is ‘anime’ vs Nintendo’s ‘Disney,’ where Nintendo is consistently high quality but you know what to expect, whereas Sega can vary a bit in pure quality but will surprise and maybe excite you more (just my personal feelings on those forms of media).

    However, super concerned about how they want to remove/sand out some of the “Japanese-ness” from their products. This isn’t me complaining about Rouge’s new outfit (though I’m honestly not a fan that they did that), but I hoped that things like RGG and Persona succeeded in spite of their “Japanese-ness” but because of it. Though looking at the number of online randos cheering on every time a game gets altered for “western sensibilities” in any way, I’m afraid that may not be true.

    I’m worried we’ll see the following happen:
    1. Japanese media finds a dedicated audience abroad because it offers something unique

    2. Existing fans and producers spread it more through word of mouth and marketing to a peripheral, but larger, audience who likes aspects of it but is put off by other parts

    3. Producer decides to adapt the product for mass appeal and improve sales with the larger audience by imitating products that are more successful in their region

    4. Core fan base feels betrayed, product loses out on what made it unique, and the broader audience falls away because the vocal fan base is no longer promoting it and the product is now just a lesser version of what you can get elsewhere.

    This is obviously a worst case scenario and I’m not saying it will happen. It’s just something I fear when certain things do a bit ‘too well.’ Yes, it’s easier to appeal to an existing demand than to create a new one, but Japanese creators will have an inherent competitive disadvantage when it comes to suiting the tastes of the average Westerner and this will lead to inefficiencies if they’re trying to overcome this.
     
  15. Snub-n0zeMunkey

    Snub-n0zeMunkey

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    I don't think this is remotely true at all, Sonic Mania wouldn't have prevented Sonic Forces from being made (regardless of the shoehorning of classic sonic into forces) and Superstars definitely didn't have any impact on Shadow Generations existing.
    I won't deny this though, at the end of the day Classic Sonic should just be an artstyle choice. It doesn't really help that they treat classic Sonic more like a chibi baby version of modern. There's definitely a growing stigma that classic is just nostalgiabait.

    ah well, at least there will always be fangames like Sonic Galactic
     
  16. Trippled

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    I think they will try will Classic Sonic again sometime...Team Sonic Racing wasn't that hot of a seller, but they keep trying so

    I have been reading past materials of Sega talking about this, but they have often stressed that the games succeeded because of it's Japaneseness. Even the live service Super Game stuff with old school IP will keep it's Japaneseness according to a 2021 interview.

    "Too Japanese" can be interpreted in alot of ways...stuff like PSO2 NGS or new age Shining games is most definitely too Japanese.
     
  17. Palas

    Palas

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    This isn't true though. They clearly exist for different audiences, with different brand strategies and different people associated with them. Classic and Modern Sonic are thought to be complementary, and that's true since the split (which started in 2008 and became complete with Generations).

    You'll notice Sonic Team hasn't actually made a (pure) classic Sonic game so far, and it's unlikely to happen. If Classic Sonic looks like a stifling, airtight box focused on a very specific audience with a very specific strategy, that's because it is. But it also means they don't really fight for the same pool of resources.

    But I'm not entirely sure where you'd want the Modern 2D titles to live. They once existed in the handheld market, which isn't much of a thing anymore. Even if there are suddenly new purely handheld consoles, they're unlikely to require a completely separate team to make the games with totally different premises from the mainline games. The closest I can think of is Dream Team: a different, very closed market segment... but that didn't go 2D where it might have gone a few years ago. It's hard to imagine them needing to make Sonic Rush 3 when they could make the next 2.5D Sonic, as the audience overlap is close to 1:1. It wasn't Classic Sonic that killed 2D modern titles; there just isn't a Modern Sonic that wasn't born in Sonic Rush anymore.
     
  18. Yes, that’s my point. Those are things that I like. Though I will say, it’s not like I prefer them to OG Phantasy Star or the original Shining games. I just don’t want to see Sega become a developer of also-ran ‘Western’ games with a Japanese coat of paint.
     
  19. Deep Dive Devin

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    Most internet people's ideas of "Western sensibilities" are wildly inconsistent and drenched in culture-war "oh no they put a black woman in my game" bullshit, I don't think it serves any meaningful use as language.
     
  20. Laura

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    I think @BlueSkiesAM2 is concerned about Japanese developers making their games increasingly 'Western' in a way which is sanding off its Japanese cultural qualities rather than any culture war nonsense. Especially after reading the interview. I think it's a valid concern. I personally agree that Japanese games are usually more interesting because they authentically present what the culture is. Well you know, that small part of the Japanese culture.

    I think the Shogun TV Show is a good example of a Japanese product themed for western audiences. It's a really good TV show but one clearly made for western audiences. Aside from the costume and set design it's historically illiterate and very much made for Western TV sensibilities. And that's not a culture war thing at all.