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Sonic Superstars: A New 2D Sonic Game (Fall 2023)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by DefinitiveDubs, Jun 8, 2023.

  1. charcoal

    charcoal

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  2. bombatheechidna

    bombatheechidna

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    It also feels better than Mania. That’s not taking away from Mania which is a better game but now when I play I feel a slight delay in the drop dash and spin dash in comparison to Superstars.
     
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  3. Starduster

    Starduster

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    It’s really aggravating for me because it means you have to use an analog stick in order to get full range of movement. It’s not the only thing in the game like this and it stumps me as to why anyone would design a 2D platformer like this.
     
  4. bombatheechidna

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    That part of the game is annoying. Just move the stick up and down, If you’re going upward.
     
  5. Solid SOAP

    Solid SOAP

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    I wouldnt be surprised if every character actually controls the same. I've seen people complain about Knuckles feeling sluggish and such, but did he not feel that way in the classics and Advance series? I always did not care for playing as Knuckles and Tails because their abilities bring the pacing of the game down.
     
  6. Chimpo

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    Knuckles' specific gliding and climbing gimmicks and abilities are nerfed compared to previous entries. Blueblood pointed it out the exact specifics in the previous page. Werster also mentions the changes in their rant at 2 minutes and 7 seconds.

     
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  7. Starduster

    Starduster

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    Nah, Knuckles never had *this* much pause to his actions. His climbing was fairly instant and while his landing has varied, this is definitely the longest it's been in 2D.
     
  8. Fadaway

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    It depends on what people like about Sonic.

    For example, my tier list would be Sonic 3 & Knuckles at #1, Sonic Superstars at #2, Sonic CD at #3, Sonic Mania at #4 (and the only reason Mania is ahead of Sonic 1 is because of its special stages), Sonic 1 at #5 and Sonic 2 at #6 (I really abhor a lot of Sonic 2 except for its great OST and final boss). I've never played a single 3D Sonic game besides a little of Sonic Frontiers and don't care to. When Sonic Adventure came out, everyone I knew trashed it. 99% of my friends were Playstation enthusiasts for what it's worth and also trashed anything Nintendo as well.

    I don't like Sonic games to be about speed at all. I like platforming and difficulty. I grew up with difficult games and that's about all I like.

    But, if you got into Sonic through other means such as loving the speed of it or not liking challenge, I can completely understand a different rationale.
     
  9. I think the most interesting thing about the reactions to this game is that, this is probably the most divisive "Classic" game. This type of reception is pretty standard for the Modern 3D games as we've seen with Frontiers, but this is the first time where it seems like the reception for Classic isn't as universally positive across the board as was with Mania.

    I wonder if this has to do with the ever changing perception of Classic Sonic? Before it felt like the Classic games were being treated as these untouchable masterpieces when the series was drifting away from it in the 2000's.

    But now that Classic is back as a brand in its own right alongside Modern, that perception has been slowly chipped away. Mania was something we never thought we'd see in a million years and we all assumed it was just gonna be a one-off thing, but it spawned a whole ass brand.

    But now with Superstars, sure we can argue it's because Evening Star aren't working on it, but the general consensus seems that the game is as close to Classic as you can get even if it doesn't reach the same highs as Mania, and yet it's still as divisive as any other Modern game.

    Just an interesting observation.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2023
  10. Snowbound

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    Is it possible to cancel the usage of emerald powers? The tutorials say you can stop the ability by pressing the left and right trigger but that doesn’t work for me. I’ve seen folks on social media saying the same thing
     
  11. Chimpo

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    That's becaues they were. There's no change in perception, just in change in quality.
     
  12. Blue Blood

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    Something maces Superstars feel.
    Knuckles absolutely does not control the same. The base physics are virtually 1:1 with the Classics, but Knuckles' unique actions are not. They are much clunkier and slower than before. It's objective. Things like not gaining speed whilst gliding, a delay before climbing and having an extra long recovery time are plain as day. I've not played much as Tails in Superstars, but I'm pretty sure his flight is actually faster/lighter than the Classics, and that's a definite improvement if so.

    EDIT: Re the bolded point about a delay in climbing, I just figured out what it actually is. There's not an actual delay in how soon you can start climbing. The problem is that if you're pressing left/right even a little bit, he won't go up/down. That means that you have to press the D-pad perfectly centrally to get him to move, which is unlikely considering you'll likely be holding left/right as you attach to the wall in the first place. This also explains why he'll sometimes stop mid-climb too. Good luck if you're playing with an analogue stick.

    In a completely unrelated point, why does entering a checkpoint or but ring bonus stage with a shield result in the "damaged" sound effect? I've noticed that you'll retain your shield on exiting the bonus but not your magnet power up. You don't get the damaged sound if you don't have a shield. And I'm not sure if get the damaged sound if you've only got a magnet. Either way, I've skipped a few bonus stages now because the magnet is infinitely more beneficial than a pittance of medals for a mode I don't even want to play.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2023
  13. So what's the difference between the Classics, Mania and Superstars in your opinion?
     
  14. MykonosFan

    MykonosFan

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    I just hit everything on my controller until it stops. I remember reading that in the tutorial prompt too, but it never worked for me either so I just assumed I was remembering incorrectly. Huh.
     
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  15. Chimpo

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    I just told you. I can't make it any simpler than that.
     
  16. I'm asking you to outline the differences in quality, I don't think that's asking for a lot.
     
  17. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    You're not going to get it from me. I've dumped several hours on the old games and Mania. I don’t think I need to tell you why those games are viewed as masterpieces. We still talk about them and hold them as a standard 5-30 years later.
    I've dumped 0 in Superstars as I have not picked it up. There's more than 20 pages of impressions from various posters already detailing their thoughts in details on the game. Based on those impressions and the leak footage, it doesn't look like this game is worth the $60 they're asking for at launch.
    I'll be happy to tell you my exact differences once I picked it up, but from an outsider, I rather spend my money on Mario Blunder first. If Stupidstars had the polish and production values of Wonder, then impressions would probably be leaning a lot more on the positive side.
    We'd probably still hate the boss designs though.
     
  18. Starduster

    Starduster

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    I can semi-reliably cancel the super form this way, but I've never had any luck with the other powers. Add it to the list of things in this game that just don't work I guess...

    Maybe it's because I'm so deeply embedded in this community, but I haven't felt like this is the case in a loooong time. CD has more or less always been a black sheep for its...shall we say "avant-garde" level design, Sonic 1 is blemished by lacking certain standard features and not really capturing the crystallised form of the gameplay due to being the first attempt. Sonic 2 and 3&K come off well, but they're also like...really that good (well Sonic 3 & Knuckles is, anyway). Mania has had detractors since day one for relying on past levels to extend its runtime - a valid criticism, even if I do think the choice ultimately gave us a better game due to how thoroughly reimagined those levels are. My point is that, while the Mega Drive games are put on a massive pedestal, it's because the series was never able to recapture them in 25 years of trying before Mania released, with the closest attempt arguably being the first Advance game.

    The reason Superstars is divisive isn't because our perception of the classic formula has changed (though even that has always had detractors, mainly the fans of other formulae), it's because it really isn't the classics. Of course, it's difficult to have these conversations because it's important to recognise that art is subjective and nobody's necessarily wrong for liking any particular entry. Enjoyment is individual and often can't so easily be pared down to simple data. However, in dedicated gaming communities such as ours, there's an implicit recognition that there is a quasi-objective element to the quality of these games. Not necessarily meaning that anything that isn't the Mega Drive games is intrinsically lesser by default, but that those games (2 and 3&K in particular) solidified the fundamental nature of Sonic gameplay at its peak. You can do different things, sure, but those foundations are always going to be a high water mark because they're the definition - the template. Deviations from that then have debate focused more on how they execute the ideas they go for, which is the reason why other styles are able to sustain passionate fans instead of dying on the vine for being different to the classics.

    With that said, Superstars fails in both these aspects. Where it differs from the classics is where it's drawing the most criticism, not only for being antithetical to what the classics are but also for executing its own ideas badly. For example, Superstars wants these long, involved bosses to up the spectacle and really challenge the player? That's all well and good, but they suck because they don't properly communicate the designers' intentions to players, have punishingly small margins for error and become frustrating due to their dirth of checkpoints between phases. It's not about people reevaluating their feelings on the classics, because Superstars is bad independently of them.

    It's also important to remember that Superstars isn't even a week old yet. Frontiers enjoyed a pretty lengthy honeymoon period, I feel, and Superstars is certainly in the thick of its own. In the past 12 months, sentiment on Frontiers matured from the game being the best 3D Sonic to being an interesting new direction that could serve as the foundation for the next stage of 3D Sonic, but has a laundry list of issues to be address before it can blossom into its best self. I fully expect conesus on Superstars not only to flip, but to flip much harder than Frontiers. Once people get past the big thing of the physics being impressively accurate (and I can't stress this enough, this really does feel like a small miracle for any developer other than the Mania crew), the confused level design, awful pacing, frustrating bosses and sloppy presentation values will come into sharper and sharper focus, alongside other issues.
     
  19. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    My take is that the bosses were Sonic Team/Arzest's attempt at trying to fit the boss design of Retro Studios' Donkey Kong games (a LOT of Superstars seems to be inspired by those games, from their art direction to their gameplay shifting between the background and foreground) into the template of a Sonic game it wasn't the most graceful implementation. Aside from making it so you could attack the boss at any moment like the classics, other simple ways to make them a lot more enjoyable would be decreasing the number of required hits, having them throw out rings/shields after hits (like Retro Studios Donkey Kong bosses do!), and/or adding checkpoints to some of the late-game ones.

    I don't think the bosses are horrible or anything (once you've figured out their attack patterns, they're pretty breezy), but they're very rough around the edges and could use some fine tuning.
     
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  20. Blue Blood

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    The game tells you to press L1+L2 on PS5 (LB+RB on Xbox, L+R on Switch) simultaneously to cancel an Emerald Power. However, this is misleading. It doesn't cancel any activated powers except Super forms. What it actually does is deselect the power you've highlighted.

    I can't tell if it's a borderline useless mechanic that's poorly explained, or if its bugged and its actually meant to cancel activated powers. Having the ability to cancel the Slow power would be really helpful, since the ability lasts for much longer than any section where is actually useful and then becomes a hindrance.
     
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