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Sonic Superstars: A New 2D Sonic Game (Fall 2023)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by DefinitiveDubs, Jun 8, 2023.

  1. Only for viewing

    Only for viewing

    aka Superstarxalien Member
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    i thought the retro engine eyeballed things, anyway
     
  2. XCubed

    XCubed

    Will Someday Own a Rent-A-Center Oldbie
    Strange that they were having such difficulty, but I’m thankful they took the time and effort to make it right. This gives “backwards compatibility” a new meaning.

    That Cyber Station boss is going to a BEAST. Definitely going to need Super Sonic for that .

    BTW, the Rocket part of the zone is a neat little throwback to Doomsday Zone.
     
  3. Deef

    Deef

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    I recall something said somewhere about Mania being both; Taxman and Stealth each coming from opposite directions. Of course the classic remakes were already a thing before Mania, so... *shrug*. I think I've always assumed there was a lot of direct conversions of the classic physics equations involved in them. Just my assumptions though; others here probably know for sure.

    Pretty sure Taxman's old Retro Sonic really was just eyeballing everything at least, though I never tried its latest versions.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2023
  4. I’m don’t know how much stock we should put in Ōshima’s statement about the game feel. It’s an interview so they play things up to sound interesting and express how hard the team works and cares about the game’s quality. I expect someone looked at the code for at least Mania as a starting point. It’d be nice if they referenced the physics guide on here, but considering M2’s trouble implementing the spindash and how they ended up asking Naka, they likely didn’t.

    However, even if they weren’t eyeballing it, I’m sure there are a lot of things that could make a 1-to-1 recreation of movement and physics end up playing differently when transferred to a new engine. The overlaying of classic games isn’t a bad idea. I’ve actually thought about doing the same thing with games like Frontiers to try to adjust the variables to match Adventure’s movement as closely as possible.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2023
  5. Deef

    Deef

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    Uh huh. Ceiling running springs to mind.
     
  6. I'm not sure what's the big issue here, wouldn't it naturally be challenging to adapt physics meant for a 2D sprite based game into something that's effectively 3D (even if it's locked in a 2D perspective)? Sure there's probably some stuff that can carry over, but still gotta make it work
     
  7. Laura

    Laura

    Brightened Eyes Member
    If the game plays well I don't care how they made it. The one thing Superstars definitely has done well is the physics.
     
  8. Solid SOAP

    Solid SOAP

    Nut Lord Member
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    Yea, I don't understand the controversy here.

    Like, if the end result is that we have super accurate physics, who seriously gives a fuck?
     
  9. Chimpo

    Chimpo

    I Gotta Be Me Member
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    Sonic 4 paranoia that people refuse to get over.
     
  10. Deef

    Deef

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    I don't think it's controversy; rather just me being antsy. Mainly, upon hearing that there was so much eyeball-based tuning going on to the point of video overlays, and that dependence on pure equations wasn't even getting them past language like "extremely difficult" and "wasn't working for the longest time", that kind of stuff dials down my expectations for accurate classic physics imitation.

    Maybe only a dials them down a little, but more than zero. I've certainly moved into preferring the term "accurate physics" over "super accurate physics" at least. I'm expecting a few quibbles here and there now. They won't hurt the game as a game at all, I assume. But me being antsy about it, I'm thinking there's a good chance it'll affect my personal experience a bit. At least for a while. Not a huge deal and I think that's just how it is for a game in this situation.

    TLDR: Not controversy. Just me by the looks of it.
     
  11. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

    SAY HELLO TO MY CHOCOLATE BLEND Member
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    What do you MEAN I shouldn't hate Superstars before I even play it because of one mid game from 13 years ago made by people who don't even work on Sonic at all anymore
     
  12. Palas

    Palas

    Don't lose your temper so quickly. Member
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    Like Deef, I was just very confused about how they did it. I just didn't get it. Seems to have been an arduous process, but which worked! Also, hoping to see classic levels hidden in the files someday. That'd be fun.
     
  13. Nope

    Nope

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    you can lead a questionable development team to good physics, but you can't make them design good stages. or good graphics. or music. or
     
  14. Palas

    Palas

    Don't lose your temper so quickly. Member
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    And what are you on about again
     
  15. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    It's not that strange of a process. Bionic Commando Rearmed's swinging mechanic was replicated by taking measurements and timing the function using the NES game as reference. There was another remake/sequel to a franchise that did something similar but the title escapes my mind. I need to search it up. My own personal throwaway projects were done by similar eyeball methods as I don't have the expertise to debug old games, I had to resort to guess work and trial and error.
    You can argue about Sonic's movement having more depth or nuance to it, but if the ultimate goal was to have an accurate recreation then the road to getting there is irrelevant. A genuine attempt was made and they achieved it.
     
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  16. MH MD

    MH MD

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    You either think about Streets of Rage 4 or something else entirely.

    But SoR4 did this method ,also linking the controls of SoR 2 to SoR 4 to replicate the feel, it worked wonderfully and they made the best SoR game in the process
     
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  17. foXcollr

    foXcollr

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    Tbh that sounds really cool and that's exactly the kind of work I'd expect to go into a game like this. I'm no Unity expert, but even I know it's not as simple as "just port over Mania physics". They clearly started with a very different foundation and still somehow recreated the same thing with a great degree of accuracy. Overlaying video sounds like a really cool way to make sure certain terrain interactions are as 1:1 as possible, I'd actually be surprised if they... didn't do that, because how else are you going to verify your results when the foundations you're building upon aren't even remotely the same?

    People who have played the game seem to think it feels about as close to the classics as Mania did, so I trust that they did a pretty good job. Also that bit about the rabbit skin is VERY hype. We're getting whole new characters with these skins, glad to know I can get the skins later without pre-ordering or getting digital deluxe at launch.
     
  18. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

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    This. I'm somewhat skeptical about stage design and art direction still, but from everything I've seen? The physics are on point.

    At this point, the game is whatever it's going to be. Claiming it'll be the best game he worked on is bold, as is comparing it to Mania... my standards are stupidly high for that kind of bold claim, but I don't need them to be full met to enjoy the game either, so it is whatever it is!
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2023
  19. jubbalub

    jubbalub

    #1 Sonic Superstars defender Member
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    Here's a video that speedruns the top path of Speed Jungle Zone Act 1, showcasing quite a bit of new level design.

     
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  20. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

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    Actually there's a lot of things that aren't ideal in the original implementation of the engine. For example, the collision is kinda wonky as it was made to be calculated in real time by the Motorola 68k, the actual layouts had problems depending on how the ramps interacted, just look at the diagonal-shaped loops in Chemical Plant that had to be removed or the not-90-degrees ramps in Emerald Hill that launch you directly upward.

    Dimps implementation of Classic Sonic in Sonic Generations 3DS was completely different when compared to the actual games but it felt really good to play. The reason Sonic 4 felt so weird is they basically maxed out the deceleration values so casual phone users could easily control a platformer in touch screen phones and didn't revert all those changes when making Ep 2.

    Actually having this new engine made with modern collision and physics libraries might positively impact the future of modern Sonic 3D games since there's a chance they physics engine Frontiers uses (Bullet Physics) as it's also able to be integrated into Unity projects.