Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by DefinitiveDubs, Jun 8, 2023.
Gee Amy, this is worse than the time I accidentally saw Elise again at the bar
The "weird takes on the benign decisions Ian Flynn makes" I was talking about include this, by the way. Hating Flynn's continuity references is also a thing I don't get.
Also, the classic animations never have voice acting, so no, there's likely no dreaded acknowledgement of previous games and media in this animation, thank god(?).
It's not the references themselves, it's the quantity of them and sometimes needlessness. I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be, but Frontiers in particular has a lot of lines that go kinda overboard. Especially the ones that just namedrop specific things at random. Yes Sonic, I'm sure that random waterfall reminds you of the Mystic Ruins. It takes me out of the game as some points.
That said, I think Frontiers is the only thing that really suffers from this. Anywhere else I have no idea where the complaints come form. And it's not even that bad in Frontiers.
This one just makes me laugh out loud tho
References are fine, just that there's a difference between Amy walking around Casino Park being reminded of Casinopolis and Sonic in a random generic environment somehow thinking of Red Mountain.
Anyways back on Superstars. For the past month or so I've been keeping away from everything not shown in official trailers so I'm mostly in the blind with Superstars atm. I know the Sonic YT dropped some songs and while i don't plan on listening to them, I just need to know: do the songs sound like Sonic 4 rejects?
Is that a small hill? Gee I bet this random character that's only been established in comic books that are seen by a considerably smaller audience would enjoy these!
I can't wait to get home I bet CREAM (REMEMBER CREAM GUYS?!) and Sticks (who we told you wasn't canon to this story since her introduction) want to have a picnic!
Hey Knuckles remember sega genesis and chuckling at me and tails? Let's show a screenshot of that off my Genesis emulator.
I'm Tails and I'm inconsistent for no reason! Isn't it great we acknowledged that? I'm really having a character moment.
It's better than before but let's not lie, it's still not too great.
The only songs we've heard that sound anything like Sonic 4 are the boss and menu themes from the first demo, and we've received *some* indication that those may be unfinished. Everything we've had revealed from Bridge Island, Speed Jungle, the special stages and Pinball Carnival has been...well, better.
These complaints in particular don't even sense.
"but Tangle and Sticks weren't established in the games yet" So? If people are curious they'll look them up. If not, oh well. Oh no, the Sonic game made a reference to a thing only hardcore Sonic fans would get! Well, yeah, that's going to happen when you're a 30 year old multimedia franchise.
Cream IS established in the games, but you also have a problem with referencing her? She's Amy's best friend, so it makes perfect sense to include her in her plans. Weren't people ("people" being me) complaining that Cream WASN'T in the games, anyway? In Forces and Team Sonic Racing?"Remember Cream" I genuinely believed that Sonic Team didn't, yeah.
Knuckles isn't talking about chuckling, he's talking about how the Ancients' architecture reminds him of Angel Island. That is the perfect time to show a picture of Angel Island for comparison's sake: this is important to the lore, the setting, and Knuckles' character arc. The only issue is that the image the chose is random and doesn't fit what Knuckles is talking about.
Like Knuckles, Tails' past is relevant to his character arc and story. Metatextually, Tails has been, well, inconsistent for over a decade. Flynn does something clever and makes that part of his character development. Forces' existence has been justified and is not just a mistake. Or should it just be ignored? We hate continuity, actually. If people said THAT when Forces came out, maybe Flynn and Sonic Team wouldn't have bothered.
They can't reference a new character because they weren't mentioned enough, but they also can't reference established characters because they're referenced "too much". They can't make a reference for fun because that's obnoxious (Ian Flynn can't even be cheeky about the fact that he is writing a story!), but they can't make a reference that is relevant to the story because... you don't even give a reason. It's just wrong, for some reason?
All this is after a decade of fans not liking how the games DON'T reference or even straight up retcon events and plot points. "Oh, Classic Sonic is from another dimension? So the classic games didn't happen?" "No, they happened." "SHUT UP, I HATE REFERENCES!"
As an aside, the vast majority of references are in completely optional voice clips. I've played the game for 30 hours and I haven't heard any clips but the "look at that view" one. Most people have never heard these references but the mere fact they exist is a problem, I guess.
People say this a lot, but this time I mean it: genuinely, what do Sonic fans want? These complaints don't sound like they're in good faith at all. People complain whether it's subtle or obvious, random or relevant. People exaggerate the volume of it and then try to pass it off as the truth. That doesn't feel like critique or even a gripe. I just don't buy it, sorry.
ANYWAY. How about that animated short?
Yeah I didn't feel it was that much of a problem in Frontiers. The gratuitous callbacks are mostly kept to the random one-off comments, which is a huge "who cares", and I think the game does a good job of building upon the characters naturally. Knuckles in particular needed that "I don't want to just be the ME guardian guy anymore" arc since Heroes where they kept shoving him into plots without it making any sense for him to be there. It didn't bug me as much as it did some others, but even just a small arc would've been enough to fix the problem and yet the writers never even gave something as simple as "what is Knuckles' motivation" any thought. That's poor.
It's shitty that Tails' arc is "how do I become a consistent character", I'll grant you that, but the fault for that one lies less on Ian and more on the writers before him who didn't know what to do with him. Might as well because it was gonna be on the fans' mind anyway. Shrug.
Yeah how about that prologue though. Even if I'm not that excited for Superstars, the 2D Sonic animations have been consistently fun.
I actually like the message of the arc being "just because you stumble doesn't mean you're regressing". It invites future possibility of Tails failing without making it out of character, which is more interesting than him being from this point on perfect and fearless.
But also PLEASE let this be the last "Tails wants to be his own hero" storyline. That's the real issue. Let him do something new. I don't even care if he isn't playable, just... do something else.
Couldn’t agree more. I enjoy the references, it’s nice to have a tiny throwback here and there that isn’t gameplay.
I am looking forward to seeing this =P
Tails is a badass engineer
He has plenty of room to come into his own, they should focus on his ability more and give him some unexpected power plays here and there. He can be a potent character if they let it happen, the right ingredients are there.
^^ Yes. and the experiences of the first two stories in which Tails travelled with Sonic are both very complex to begin with!! like Sonic 2, flying all the way to the Wing Fortress and then being knocked out of the sky yet realizing the plane actually needed a jet booster so they could bring Sonic into orbit..!!
and if Sonic 3K is considered to have happened sequentially from zone to zone, what a challenging series of events and environments to navigate for someone who perhaps is just in training!!
Hyper Tails seems to reveal that Tails is some type of Avatar just like Sonic, so it does make sense that it was possible to meet all of the challenges and have true foresight, among other aspects!!
Superstars animation is out:
And it's beautiful
It is amazing indeed.
The figures on the mural look like Trip, and she was forlorn about the snake that they defeated. Trip is also a lizard. So it seems that like Knuckles, she's connected to the history of the North Star Islands.
Oh, I just notice that not only are the figures the same color as the Emeralds, but they also show off the Emerald Powers. Does that mean Trip gets to use the Emerald Powers too? The circle in the center seems to be a new type of gem, probably housing the final boss.
My favorite character from Forces makes a triumphant return, the giant snake out of nowhere! I'm very curious why Trip is even working with Eggman and Fang. She seems much too nice to be a villain yet doesn't seem to be held at gunpoint or anything like that either.
Just pre-ordered with Game. Can't wait.
The version with audio description (i assume for accessibility) describes Trip as a Sungazer Lizard as many people suspected.
That's a nice tibdit of information.
Love that animation - all the fun of Sonic Mania Adventures, but with what looks like a much bigger budget than either that series or the Sonic Origins cutscenes. Great to see the shading style/character designs from Origins make a return, too - it really shines here when combined with this smooth, expressive animation style. The Triple Trouble reference in the title card's design was a nice touch, too, especially given the short's focus on Fang.
Speaking of which, I'm guessing Fang's pop gun has been officially retired - if it was going to show up anywhere, I'd have expected him to pull it out at least once in this short given some of the situations he found himself in. Not expecting to see it in-game either at this point. No wonder he's been rebranded "Fang the Hunter" - you can't very well be a sniper without some kind of gun! = P
Absolute favourite shot of the whole thing:
The sinister track-in to Sonic, Tails and Amy at the end of Fang's nightmare/memory - I love it when they play around with the visual style, and it's also fun seeing the villains' perception of our heroes for a change. Having all four of the OG Sonic crew team up on you at once would definitely be a scary prospect, haha!
So anyone else find it weird that they just insist that the Classic characters just never speak voiced dialogue, but they have written dialogue in the comics?
Harder to make a comic book without dialogue than a game or an animation
Not impossible buuuuuuuut it's just significantly easier to have dialogue
EDIT: Also, giving the characters a voice impacts their characterization in a way Sega doesn't want, they want them to be more akin to classic cartoons where their actions speak for them.
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