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Sonic Superstars: A New 2D Sonic Game (Fall 2023)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by DefinitiveDubs, Jun 8, 2023.

  1. shilz

    shilz

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    The power needed to keep loading in all the chunks of the main level is probably the culprit there. Would also explain why it kind of feels like the high end versions feel more like the PS4 version of Balan visually instead of the PS5 which has higher fidelity textures which allows for better lighting effects. Hopefully there are some of those higher resolution textures for some version that can handle it but I'm not getting my hopes up.
     
  2. Dark Sonic

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    If Superstars was this I’d of shit myself so hard I’d of died before getting the chance to play it.
     
  3. That certainly aligns with what I’ve been hearing. Maybe down the road when a newer version releases or there’s a price drop. I’ve had a few too many stupid ass impulse buys over the past year so it’s something I’ll keep an eye on for now.
     
  4. Wildcat

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    I don’t know why the Switch would not be powerful enough to run a “true” version. I understand Frontiers and even that looked fine if you didn’t mind the lowered graphics. This is 2D and very cartoonish though.

    The best comparison I can think of is Kirby and The Forgotten Land. I think that matches Superstars style almost exactly and nothing is sacrificed. I don’t know about FPS I mean scenery/resolution.

    I don’t have a PS5 or XBS. I have the Switch version of Frontiers and didn’t mind the drop in graphics but this seems unreasonable. Right? Or am I missing something?

    I guess the other point is why doesn’t Nintendo make their consoles equally as powerful as their competitors. They’re always the least powerful of the 3.
     
  5. Chimpo

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    Why should they? Their consumers don't seem to care. Look how awful the Pokémon games run. BotW and TotK both run like dog shit at times and no one cares.
    Switch gamers are a different breed.
     
  6. Because then there'd be no affordable console option. Sony and Microsoft are always selling their systems at a loss for the first few years because no ones going to pay $600+ so they can make a profit. Nintendo uses cheaper components to make their stuff so they can keep the price low and attract a wider range of consumers.

    Anyways that comparison is pretty bad. The Switch is old sure, but if it could handle Forces and Frontiers there's really no excuse here.
     
  7. Impish

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    Except Sonic Frontiers is actually a last gen game - it was designed for and runs on Xbox One and PS4 consoles, its just the happenstance that the Series X and PS5 are largely backwards compatible that they're supported. I kind of expect the Switch versions of these games to be on par with the previous gen, not current gen.
     
  8. Wildcat

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    They should make their consoles somewhere on par with Sony and MS. Especially now that the tech is powerful enough that there’s a noticeable difference depending on the games.

    I wouldn’t say people don’t care it’s just ya the PS5 and Xbox are really expensive. I’m not a 1 company person or anything. I have a PS1,2,3, XB and 360 but I think they need to update their hardware formula.

    I picked Kirby because it’s the same visual style in 3D so Superstars on Switch should be capable of doing it too. Sure Frontiers is another Sonic game on Switch but it’s understandable why the realistic graphics were downgraded.
     
  9. shilz

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    I don't really follow news about Valve or the Steam Deck in particular but I'm not sure the Steam Deck will ever really get an upgrade, at least it shouldn't be announced at any point where you'd find getting the lowest-cost one at this time regrettable. Can't say the same thing for the PC gaming handheld market as a whole, though, because there's definitely potential for the Steam Deck to be outclassed in some way that suits your specific taste. (The Loki Zero, for example, is around $250-300 which is less than you'll be paying for the lowest spec refurbished Steam Deck, but I doubt that would actually run Superstars well)

    Personally, I'd love to have a GPD Win Mini, but that seems like it'll just be a dream.


    This is said a lot but it's mainly because it's the truth, the Switch is basically a glorified (outdated) tablet with a custom Nintendo OS. While there's nothing wrong with that, every console will be outdated by its generation's end, it also means Nintendo has more resources when it comes to getting the most out of the system and their developers know exactly how far they want to go with their capabilities during that generation and get input on what the hardware can do. While it's definitely possible for other devs to get the most out of the system, when developing multiplatform projects, that gets more and more difficult the more systems you're on. And Superstars is on a lot of platforms... at least as many platforms as Arzest's last multi-platform game, Balan Wonderworld. The key difference between that project's Switch version (which seems to retain all objects but at a low fidelity) is, Balan is a slower experience where you'll be traversing stages in a 3d space, similar to the Kirby example. You'll pretty much always reach any new section in a reasonable time for it to load, if it has to load at all. Sonic meanwhile has to load each tiny section of the level individually, before you really even get there, because you'll be going so fast. And they're trying to do that at 60FPS (for some reason). They'd never get there if they also had to load in ALL the background elements.
     
  10. Palas

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    Not only is that impossible, there's also no reason for them to do so.

    Sony and Microsoft are technology companies first and game companies second. I'm sure you'll remember the PS3, being hard to develop for and more costly than the Wii and X360, was still given support just to push blu-ray as the next physical media -- and it worked. The 360, in turn, made cross-play and online services the norm, because that also helped Microsoft's other businesses first. Nintendo doesn't have other significant branches to absorb losses/leverage new tech for. Hardware power simply isn't the core of their business, and can't really be.

    Selling cheaper gaming hardwares that play like no other, and relying on first-party software to dictate how games are going to be made for them, is very beneficial to them. It retains the playerbase, ensures a bigger market share both in hardware and software, which in turn makes their presence sustainable not only in gaming, but in media. Why would they change that? How would they change that? Would you really?
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2023
  11. Looking at this thread, I'm starting to think what Sonic fans like about the series and what general consumers like are very different....
     
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  12. Chimes

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    Very.
     
  13. Laura

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    I disagree. What most people want is a Sonic game with a good aesthetic, OST, and fun speedy platforming. That's the baseline and most people are very forgiving of this franchise despite their tastes and preferences. It's why I'm going to get Superstars despite not being totally down with it. A vague and whishy washy expectation but it's why it's so open to interpretation and will usually be accepted on its own terms.

    I also think some of the Sonic fan idiosyncracies have trickled down into the wider gaming conscience. Whenever I meet someone who has a moderate enjoyment of Sonic they do tend to want 3D open spaces, a dark serious story, and multiple playable characters. I think that side of the fandom resoundingly won that argument with the public. Its one reason Frontiers sold so well.

    I have a bit of a pet peeve actually over when people say 'fan' and 'public' without really defining either. People who play Sonic occasionally are still fans in the same way I'm a casual Street Fighter fan and Arc Systems Work fan. And the viewpoints between the hardcore fandom and casual fandom often overlap. Actually I'd say gigantic success is when the hardcore fandom and casual fandom largely buy into something for the same reason.
     
  14. I would say there is a bit of a difference between a casual fan and a hardcore fan of something, they like the same thing sure, but for often very different reasons. You yourself just said that what people want from a Sonic game is often open to interpretation, so there's not one set definition. A game that is welcomed in the fandom with open arms could be met with middling critical reception, which ironically describes Frontiers despite the game selling so well and I'd personally chalk that up to the advertising and the movie putting much more public awareness about Sonic than ever before.

    The reactions to Superstars from what I've seen vary from mild excitement to tepid. Its definitely not gonna be as polarizing of a game as Frontiers was to me, but when I said the preferences between casual fans and hardcore, I was speaking more primarily in how hard some are coming down on the aesthetic, particularly in light of Iizuka's comments about pixel art, one of the biggest things I saw praise about for Mania from the (older) hardcore fanbase.

    I really haven't seen anyone outside of hardcore Sonic fans really being that hard on Superstars for its aesthetic, because most casual fans recognize that's just the typical style nowadays for most 2D platformers.
     
  15. ELS

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    It's not about sprites or 3d or hand drawn or 4th thing, it's about quality. This game is a downgrade from Mania visually. Do claymation for all I care but make it nice.
     
  16. Wildcat

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    I agree that it’s a smart business model but I think to keep their hardware purposely underpowered is going to hurt them the more games advance.

    They don’t have to include the ability to play movies since that makes the cost higher but something that puts their hardware on equal footing would be good so their versions of games don’t need to be downgraded or seen as inferior.
     
  17. Chimpo

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    That's been their business model for a majority of the time they've been in business.
     
  18. SuperSnoopy

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    Slice of life visual novel, coming soon...?
    I just wish their hardware weren't so terribly weak is all. Nothing runs at 60 fps and most game lag all the time and look terrible, lol.
    I don't mind retro games because they were made with the limitations of the consoles in mind and can still look amazing in their own right, but downgraded games always look like they're held together by ducktape and prayers.
    They're muddy, littered with input lag, inconsistent with their asset quality...You can just feel something's not quite right, and the Switch is the poster child for this kind of experience.

    Like, I didn't put more than 4 hours in the Switch version of Frontiers because good lord, it both looks bad and runs bad.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2023
  19. LF222

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    The catch with switch is that its not as weak as it seems, its just that devs who port to it rarely put in the effort. ninty hardware is unique, and people who know how to work it can do plenty, even using outside engines (see Pikmin 4, which runs on UE4)
     
  20. Blue Blood

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    Total side note, but same, kind of... I have an OLED Switch and playing Frontiers on that in handheld mode was a pretty bad time. If it was the only way I could play the game, I don't know if I'd have bothered to finish Kronos. But my TV on the other has impressive upscaling and motion smoothing. Frontiers Switch when making use of those features was honestly not bad at all. I even did a comparison switching between PS5 with the TV set to standard low-latency gaming mode and the Switch set to upscaling motion smoothing. The overall result was obviously not as good as the PS5 and had some degree of latency (albeit less than a lot of TVs have as standard), but it wasn't worlds apart either. A sharp image running at a very convincing 30fps smoothed to 60fps. The only stand out differences were the new like lower quality textures, less detail etc etc. Just thinking out aloud here really. There are rumours that Nintendo's next console will have built in AI upscaling and motion smoothing, whilst still being significantly weaker than the competition. I think that's lot a good way to go and will make a lot of people very happy. It makes BotW/TotK look amazing, and makes Pokémon SV playable.

    Superstars looks like it performs fine on Switch, but the difference in fidelity is embarrassing.
    20230905_050012.jpg

    You go from stacked stone walls in the high fidelity versions to barely-connected floating blocks of smeared rubber in the Switch version. There surely can't be any excuse for that, other than the Switch version being pushed out too quickly by a team that's struggling to deliver. Superstars runs on UE, whilst looking nice enough on most platforms, isn't impressive. The Switch version just should not be looking that ugly.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2023
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