"Sonic Spitball" - a deconstruction of the franchise

Based on my memory, I really only recall watching Part 1 and actually recall it being quite decent. It was a pretty comprehensive analysis of every gameplay style from all the 'major' titles released up until that point (so the video went up to Lost World). It kinda hit the nail on the head for what I think the Boost Gameplay kinda lacked. You're encouraged to hit top speed as soon as possible (and it's quite easy to achieve), but there's a lack of an 'inbetween' some of the past titles offered. It does get more negative/critical of the later gameplay styles, but never felt outright dismissive of them to me.

That being said, I never watched the latter parts and I kinda disagreed with the end analysis of Part 1 explaining how the author personally felt Sonic as a video game series lasted so long despite setbacks. The video came to the conclusion that Sonic's world was interesting. I think this is part of the equation, but not the full solution. The video really lacked much in the way to naturally transition into this conclusion since it was focused solely on the gameplay aspect of things, so it kinda hits you like a truck. I want to say more, but I feel it'd be unfair without actually refreshing my memory and acknowledging that there are later parts which do cover some of the other stuff where this conclusion feels justified.

(Please understand I have no contempt for the video author. What I remember of Part 1 was actually a pretty fun watch based on what I remember!)

 

As of 22 October 2024, shoogles has reuploaded the Sonic Spitball series in a compilation YouTube video, along with a new short intro section.



Additionally, shoogles has changed the visibility of his original Sonic Spitball videos from Private to Unlisted. I aim to keep my video reuploads Public unless shoogles asks me to remove them.

 

A very good video. From what I recall, and from what I saw as I rewatched the first part just now, there are a lot of smart observations made here about these game's design. And while he doesn't always go much into depth about his points and reasoning, I think it is good to have such a concise overview of the series as a whole.

However, I don't agree with absolutely everything he says. (He doesn't anymore either, going by that intro.) And so I'll say some things.

This is just about the first video, the gameplay one. Because, frankly that's the only one I cared to concern myself with watching just now.

> Is the idea that rolling can potentially stop you from maintaining momentum really a good thing?

First of all, in games without roll lock like Mania, superstars, and CD, that isn't even really true as you can just jump out of it. And I would say it feels better as a result.

Further, the argument that rolling being this way forces Sonic to rely on his environment in order to maintain momentum. That is true in games with roll lock. But again, is that a good thing?

In a way, it almost discourages rolling if you don't already know what's coming up in a level. While you are going downhill right now when you activate the roll, it could be that the level design is about to transition into a flat plain, an upward incline, or even a hazard and cause you to lose speed and break your flow.

That....

doesn't really feel, good. I don't think. While level design can be structured in a way to minimize the possibility of this situation (consideration of where you place declines, inclines, and hazards while bearing in mind what a player is likely to do in these situations) I think that is just an obstacle in designing levels to work around that is just unnecessary.

My feelings toward the spindash in games with the roll lock is quite similar.

Actually, he even kind of presents a demonstration of this very thing around 7:12. And imagine if he could spindash at 23:12 and the disastrous consequences it would be.

> I don't really feel that the ring system is a genius system.

It does kind of make it to where it is a "choose your own difficulty" type thing. You can not care about avoiding damage and just hold on to one, or you can play more carefully in order to enter special stages (an element that went away after Sonic 2) or get lives and bonuses (something that I really question how much is valued in modern games, or even the older games if you are good enough to not need them.)

I just am not sure that making it to where the player can almost not care about hazards (which kind of defeats the point of them) was the best solution to the problem that the ring system was trying to solve.

> I don't agree that Marble Zone's and Labyrinth Zones traditional platforming segments is what make them bad levels. My issue with them is the waiting in the former and the fact the latter is a water level which slows Sonic's down and makes him floatier and just doesn't feel good. In fact, I enjoy the call for precision in those stages.

He says that Sonic shouldn't be about where you jump but about when as you travel up and down slopes at speed. I see no argument here about why it cannot be both. In fact, ideally, I think it should be.

> While missing out on the exploration aspect, I do not agree that Generations is lacking the speed and platforming element as he claims. There are numerous opportunities to use speed to make farther jumps and do slope jumps. And while not always the case, with sufficient skill, a decent flow can be maintained through a good deal of the platforming in that game's levels.

Even in the instances in Seaside Hill he showed as he said this where the flow was stopped, there are ways to circumvent the stop of your flow if you simply know how. We see a similar thing in his gameplay of Advance 1 around 18:18. The flow is stopped, not because the level was not designed for you maintain flow, but simply because the one playing failed to get around obstacles put in place to stop your flow.

Which could have been done with a few simple jumps.

> Also, this whole speed, platforming, exploration thing just kind of sounds dumb to me because it honestly is like, "Well, no duh."

Speed? I mean, yeah. Obviously you want to make it to where Sonic isn't sitting around waiting to be able to progress. It just feels better in ANY 2D platformer when you can maintain flow through the levels.

Platforming? Um.... yeah. It's a platformer. The platforming IS THE GAME. So it's kind of a no brainer that moving through the levels, which the game is about, should involve testing your platforming skill and ability to precisely control your movement, which the game is about.

Exploration? Allowing opportunity for players to see an area and decide to go there and/or makes plans on how they will get there? In order words, having gameplay where you THINK? Yeah, that's called depth. I think it should be a no brainer that you don't want to make a shallow game.

> Sequence around 11:52 is actually an example of Sonic 3 NOT handling the mixing of speed and platforming well. It's just a speed sequence. Pretty much no input or platforming skill is required here.

As is 58:26.

Also, at 1:01:13. I don't really agree that calling for a little bit of maneuvering at the end of this pure speed section is a example of what Sonic should be doing either. Really, I feel 3 has this problem of basically pure speed without platforming, in other words automation and non gameplay, a bit worse than the other classics in General, outside 2 with it's chemical plant zone.

> 13:12 is an example of a weakness I feel Sonic games have as far as implementation of platforming. It is technically using movement mechanics to maintain flow, a mix of speed and platforming.

But the issue here is the lack of any sort of skill needed. You're not concerned about landing properly. Nor do these jumps need to be made with any sort of precise timing as would, for example, jumping off a particular point of the curve of a slope while moving would.

I actually think 2D Mario does this sort of thing better, at least in levels where you can maintain flow through levels as you run through them. Take a look at this run through 1-1.



The considerations here is about where you land or, in other words, when you release the jump input. You don't want Mario to always go to his full jump height as we see Sonic doing in that point of the video. You have to exercise more control and precision than that, releasing jump at specific points during the upward arc to start descending to land where you want to land.

> He says 3D platforming isn't about acts of precision. 3D World's final level says hi. As does Crash Bandicoot in general. Or even the game he showed, Mario 64, in the later levels.

I think the air dash killing momentum in Gens isn't necessarily a bad thing.

First of all, you have the air boost which provides an option for that if you want.

Second, Knuckles glide also cancels momentum in the classics when done and no one complains about that. In fact, I think it's a cool thing that distinguishes Knuckles and gives him a way to platform and move that the others can't, and can be satisfying to platform with in it's own way.

And third, again it's about providing options. Air boost is really fast and hard to control but maintains flow and and allows cool short cut opportunities. Air dash is slow and kills your flow but is much easier to control, resets your falling speed, and has a little pause that allows you to position yourself over platforms with more ease.