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Sonic Retro splash screen

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Cinossu, Oct 16, 2007.

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  1. Cinossu

    Cinossu

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    Sonic the Hedgehog Extended Edition
    To be honest, I'm considering releasing the new Sonic Retro logo in normal forums, probably along with a Wiki tutorial article explaining how it works as well. It could give people a nice starting point for simple screen mode creation.
     
  2. Hitaxas

    Hitaxas

    Retro 80's themed Twitch streamer ( on hiatus) Member
    Please, please, please do. :D

    --------------------------------------

    @ Sonic 65: awesome stuff you have going on here, the s2 boss, the music, the art. It is all sextastic.
     
  3. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    Please don't.
     
  4. Metal Knuckles

    Metal Knuckles

    HAVE SOME FUN WITH MIKU Member
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    Shadow Alpha, an awesome hack of Sonic 1
    There's nothing wrong with spreading that type of knowledge around.
     
  5. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    No, I suppose you wouldn't see the problem. Let me tell you exactly what will happen: Mr Random Idiot will come here, post his shitty palette hack with my old open source music ports, and flaunt his SUPER ORIGINAL SONIC RETRO SCREEN like he did it all himself, without giving any credit, and demand respect that he doesn't deserve, all along with horrible grammar.

    While one would assume he'd be disposed of easily here—and indeed, he would—this doesn't stop him from flaunting it places with more of an ignorant userbase and getting undeserved praise over it. The number of people who would abuse such a privilege far outweigh those would make good use of it—that's why the distribution of the screen is limited to Tech Members. We don't need anybody who decides to read the wiki/board to represent us with horrible quality, piss-poor excuses for hacks.
     
  6. Metal Knuckles

    Metal Knuckles

    HAVE SOME FUN WITH MIKU Member
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    Shadow Alpha, an awesome hack of Sonic 1
    But if that were to be the case, would someone who has the mental capacity to only change a few palette lines be able to understand the coding involved with creating a new intro screen? The whole step-by-step process wouldn't have to be put down, but more of a general guideline on how to approach it. If you're really worried about the use of the Sonic Retro art, just have the guide teach how to go about it without using that as an example. I doubt that they'd be able to get it even if their hand were held the entire trip if they were that dull.

    When I originally was posting the earlier statement, I also typed something along the lines of how not being willing to give it out would seem almost egotistic, but decided to remove that part since I doubted that was the case. But you pretty much just went ahead and admitted to as much. Withholding information like that based purely on a social position sounds as arrogant as possible. Even using the excuse of having proved yourselves able to do it, that doesn't mean that people who just come into the scene aren't capable of doing as much.

    Hell, why offer to host all the utilities that are hosted if people will only use them to make shitty palette hacks and music switching? Why not hold them back, and only give them out when people can recite all the hex locations in Nemesis's guides by memory? Honestly, not every new hacker is going to be a fucking genius of the field, and will start at making shitty palette hacks or simple level layout rearrangements: like you, and everyone else in this community. It doesn't mean that they should be fed information and assistance for Sonic hacking on a need-to-know basis only.
     
  7. Spanner

    Spanner

    I used to do things... Member
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    I wish I knew...
    I see your point, Tweaker. However there are some good hacks on this board that aren't done by techies & they should be given the chance to put a screen on it. So they could apply for the permission to use the screen, or alternately a guide is on the wiki on how to make a basic screen (without the animated stuff on it).
    That's all I've got to say on this matter.

    Back on topic, please continue to keep up the good work, Sonic 65.
     
  8. Qjimbo

    Qjimbo

    Your friendly neighbourhood lemming. Oldbie
    This type argument continues to rear it's ugly head and makes me sick every time.

    There are always going to be people who do that, but is credit really such a valueble commodity? I think it's a small price to pay for the advancement of knowledge, and without sharing, we end up with far too much "control" of information that really should be free.
     
  9. Hitaxas

    Hitaxas

    Retro 80's themed Twitch streamer ( on hiatus) Member
    I too can see where you would not want that knowledge to be known. But, people that do not credit to work of others are lower than trash. Hell, I credited everyone that helped me on S1SD, even if it was so much as a suggestion that got put in.


    Besides, If such an event were to happen, a simple warn/ban is a simple button press away. Is it not? If they go to other boards, let them. They would not be respected at all here. Just like that hbrd person. My point? Information is free, credit is required, complete scum can be banned.


    In other words, I am with Qjimbo on this.
     
  10. Aurochs

    Aurochs

    Единый, могучий Советский Союз! Tech Member
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    Whatever catches my fancy
    It's not necessarily about credit. Here, let's have another go at it:
    Emphasis mine.
     
  11. Hitaxas

    Hitaxas

    Retro 80's themed Twitch streamer ( on hiatus) Member
    Yes, true. But as I said before. They can easily be warned or banned and their topic locked and trashed. Just set a zero toleration for such things as REALLY CRAPPY HACKS. Those such as plain palette hacks, with shitty layouts, voice edits in music only and random things stolen from other people, with no credit given at all.
     
  12. Sik

    Sik

    Sik is pronounced as "seek", not as "sick". Tech Member
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    being an asshole =P
    OK, but if somebody can't do ASM hacking, don't kill him :P I guess that if you can make good level layouts, change the palette of the levels (with good ones, that is) and change the level names, you can make a decent hack. Not the best, of course, but seems like a good start point for a newbie. Those hacks aren't very elaborate, but have good gameplay. (Now, how many of those exist actually? Completed ones, I mean)

    EDIT: OK, because Aurochs got angry with me in IRC, I mean, have toleration against newbies. If somebody can do better, then force them to do better, OK? Anyways, gameplay and originality are required, no matter what. Aren't good at the technical part? Then improvisate, think, man. Don't be stupid :P

    EDIT 2: What the hell, it seems like it was about Tweaker's post, not mine >_> Sik, watch out next time... Anyways, the above aclaration yet applies.

    EDIT 3: Last edit, I promise :P It was against my post finally. Oh, well, just pay attention to the above text >_>
     
  13. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    I came back into this thread and I saw nothing but WORDS with absolutely nothing valid to counter my point. But perhaps I should rephrase this to clarify my viewpoint further:

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with providing the knowledge to create such a screen. It is a useful tool to know how to create a brand new screen mode, and there is nothing wrong with creating a sort of tutorial for it. That's all good and well, and I'd encourage somebody to make that.

    What I do NOT agree with, however, is providing base materials, as Cinossu was implying that he wanted to do. Base code is fine—it's very helpful to have a pre-defined structure on which to base your screen—but if the Sonic Retro screen had been an "example" screen packed with the tutorial, a large number of people would have simply put the Retro screen in their hacks and called it a day, then they'd go around flaunting it like they're the shit. I will not encourage that behavior.

    tl;dr: Tutorial is cool, but it should only involve a template with which a screen mode CAN be created, and not with the Sonic Retro screen actually packed with it.

    And for everybody screaming GRR JUST BAN THEM, I'm not going to bother myself or any of the staff here with such an annoying burden if it's possible to prevent it. And don't act like I'm against guides or tutorials, either—I put up a shitload of guides on the SCHG How-to:Guide section, because I think it's very good for beginners to have something to go by when they're first starting out.
     
  14. Hitaxas

    Hitaxas

    Retro 80's themed Twitch streamer ( on hiatus) Member
    I agree the Sonic Retro screen should not be packed with it. Instead, something like a simple screen that will need editing. A place holder like a screen with text saying "your screen here". And nobody ever said your against such things. I can fully understand what your saying here, Tweaker.



    ... Hmm, If I were to use the Sonic Retro screen, I'd edit it to say "As seen on".
     
  15. RAMPKORV

    RAMPKORV

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    Well, if he wants people to use it, a tutorial would do good.
    Myself, I'm not going to put any references to Retro in my hack.
    I'm even tired of the use of splash screens.
     
  16. Cinossu

    Cinossu

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    .. my god, this argument was meant to have finished in October last year, with a simple discussion of it between Tweaker and myself. o_O;

    I won't be releasing the Sonic Retro screen to the public, but I will probably release a general base for such a thing. Do you want to know what's in the Sonic Retro code that makes it different from normal? I have, instead of using code from other segments of the game, duplicated such routines to make them specific to the screen itself. For example, there is the custom object loop, because I wanted to keep the SRetro object out of the main object list this time as it won't exactly be used anywhere else (nor do I want it to be), and palette load code, so it again doesn't have to go in the main lot.

    Everything but artwork is in one ASM file. It's easy as hell to edit, just you need to know what you're looking for. I don't want people coming to me saying "omg h0w u change da palet" or "why dos mi objekt n0t werk it in main obj list but ur screen crashd", for most tech members these 'problems' should be easy enough to spot and solve on their own with a simple look through the file (of which I shall be posting in the tech forum after this post). For those tech members still having problems, well, I'll do my best to help with it, but I'd prefer it if they could just persevere and work it out alone. :s It would benefit them as much as myself.

    Yeah, my two pence.
     
  17. Aquaslash

    Aquaslash

    <The Has-been Legend> Moderator
    That said...how about splitting the bullshit from this topic?
     
  18. Qjimbo

    Qjimbo

    Your friendly neighbourhood lemming. Oldbie
    Well it clearly wasn't seeing as Tweaker said "please don't" to what you thought you'd agreed to. Don't go blaming us for that.
     
  19. Cinossu

    Cinossu

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    Tweaker's response was to the "please do", and we had agreed that I wouldn't release the screen to all. Notice in all the time from October to now it hasn't appeared in the E&RE forum? Don't go blaming Tweaker for responding with an opinion.
     
  20. Qjimbo

    Qjimbo

    Your friendly neighbourhood lemming. Oldbie
    I see, sorry for misunderstanding what you were getting at.
     
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