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Sonic Origins Collection - General Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, May 27, 2021.

  1. BlueSkiesAM2

    BlueSkiesAM2

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    This is the kind of thing I’m most excited for. When people mentioned wanting playlists of levels a few days ago, it made think how cool a final stage playlist and the like would be as a challenge. Getting a mission mode is enough to make this worth it for me, despite just finding out about the S1F and S2A versions of the decomps last week :V

    Not having a physical release is seriously annoying me though. If they wanted to nickel and dime us for crap, I’d rather a physical collector’s edition for double the price than this DLC crap. I don’t count games as being in my collection unless it’s physical, so excluding the trophy support and challenges, it’s making me view this as being equivalent in value to the decomps.
     
  2. AzuraRacon

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    definitely hoping we see Mania’s CRT filter return

    it’s up there as one of the better ones. Lot of other games just blur the image a little and slap dark lines on it as an afterthought
     
  3. RikohZX

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    The sprite style for the ranking letter and extra timer gives me some serious Rush vibes. There's honestly a lot of cool ideas from later in the franchise that I think would make for interesting backporting to older games, and scoring/ranking becoming more prominent is one of them even if not for the main modes.
     
  4. shilz

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    I'm sorry, I've gotta bitch just a little, so just ignore if you don't wanna hear it.

    I sat for 15 minutes rewatching the trailer, just going back and back and back.

    I kept thinking to myself, "I should have expected this, I did expect this, but why am I still so surprised, and disappointed, if I did?"
    I spent the rest of the hour just wondering why.

    Why don't we have direct ports of these games at this point? It's something we KNOW is possible, and it could've made these the perfect versions.

    I get that it kind of makes more technical sense to do it how they did, but it feels very wrong for these repackaged mobile games to be labeled as "remasters" and the best version of these games you'll ever play when they do not feel right to play, only "good enough" to play - "good enough" was really good when all you had was really badly emulated versions on your iPod touch, but this isn't your iPod Touch anymore, this is your console and your pc. It is, on some level, settling for less, in the same way some might complain about Sonic Adventure DX or Sonic Colors Ultimate, so I don't get how these were so beloved compared to versions that are emulated but add features to those games anyways?

    Why would it be worth celebrating that Sonic 3 and Knuckles is the only way to play those games, because it's the "intended developer experience", if you aren't playing how the developers intended you to experience the core gameplay?

    I like some of the stuff presented here but I just know I'd be let down actually trying to play these versions again.

    I wish I could be excited but I can't.
     
  5. SuperSnoopy

    SuperSnoopy

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    Is this another "the mobile remasters are actually bad" post?
    I really don't get it. Despite being asked to clarify multiple times, you guys never explained WHY the remasters are apparently so bad and inferior to the originals.

    My opinion (and I think that's most people's opinion really) is that the remasters are the definitive versions of the classics and renders the vanilla versions more or less obsolete. I'm all for a healthy debate, but would any of you people that don't like the remasters actually sit down and explain why you don't like them?
    I don't wanna sound like a dick, but I literally can't wrap my head around this take. So....help me understand, please?
     
  6. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    I'm sorry, but I just can't get behind this way of thinking at all. Direct ports of the Classic games are unnecessary, because perfect emulations of them already exist in a multitude of packages that are easily accessible legally and illegally. The only exception to that is CD.

    The mobile ports/remasters are 99.99% perfect and only enhance the experience. Don't like them? The originals and emulations still exist still exist. It's disingenuous to write-off these versions as cheap ports of mobile games that are merely "good enough". They are full remakes that don't change the core experience but do iron out performance issues and bugs whilst also adding in new, totally optional content. In what significant ways do these versions detract from the games? I can just about understand the argument about lives (although I don't really agree), but widescreen, remade special stages and consistent physics between the games etc etc only make things better. At worst, the changes are negligible and are recognised by the tiniest portion of players (such as being unable to spindash immediately following a glide).
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2022
  7. Starduster

    Starduster

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    Yeah, this isn’t like Generations where Classic Sonic was noticeably inaccurate to the Mega Drive games despite still providing an enjoyable veneer of that old playstyle.
     
  8. TheOcelot

    TheOcelot

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    Regarding Classic Mode:

    "Choose to Spin Dash your way through the numerous zones in Classic mode with the game’s original resolution and limited lives".

    I'm curious as to what these 4:3 versions of the games in classic mode will include (besides the normal extra-lives system). None of the screenshots released or footage in the trailer indicates anything extra.

    Whilst I do prefer playing the classic games in 16:9 I do like that we're getting CD & 3K in 4:3. Sonic 1 & 2 (emulations) in 4:3 have been released so many times over the last 30 years but SEGA hasn't released Sonic CD in 4:3 since Gems Collection in 2005 or 3K since 2011 (on Steam).

    Now, are these versions in Classic mode just gonna be straight-up emulations of the original versions; i.e only Sonic will be playable in Sonic 1 and CD, Tails is playable in Sonic 2 but can't fly and Sonic CD will either have the Jp or NA soundtrack but not both (as all previous versions of CD in 4:3 never had both soundtracks included). They could use the 1996 release of CD (which was used for the Gems Collection). They could also include the SEGA Ages versions of 1&2 which includes the drop-dash and the Knuckles in Sonic 2 rom) Or...have all 4:3 versions of the games in Origins been completely rebuilt from the ground up? I find this unlikely as the 16:9 versions of 1, 2 & CD in Origins aren't new either-just modified versions of the StealthTax remasters (which is fine of course as the mobile remasters are awesome) so I doubt SEGA would go to the effort of remaking the 4:3 versions from the ground up.

    Perhaps I'm overthinking this. Would it be more or less straightforward for Headcannon to modify the mobile remasters so that they play in 4:3 instead of 16:9 whilst retaining all the additional features (Knuckles & Tails playable in Sonic 1, Hidden Palace in Sonic 2, both soundtracks in Sonic CD etc)?

    Regardless, it's gonna be interesting to see how the 4:3 versions turn out.

    Also, here's the link to the Jp website for Origins. It does say under the "Mode" section that if you complete Classic, Anniversary (or story) you can play (will unlock) Mirror mode. So it could be that mirror mode is playable in both 16:9 and 4:3.

    Also, in this mirror mode screenshot (on the US/UK Origins site) you notice how whilst the act is mirrored the act title card "Mushroom Hill" and Score & Time is not mirrored. Mirror mode has been included in previous collections of the classics (such as the SEGA Mega Drive collection a few years back) but the title card, score & time were always flipped which bugged me a little. So I'm glad they've made this minor change.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2022
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  9. Roller

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    Massive props to Stealth and the Headcannon team, and Tyson and the Powerhouse Animation team, for this collective W. A lot of the things in the package are absolutely wonderful and I will most certainly eat the weird extra "digital deluxe" cost for you guys.

    As for the port vs remaster talk... I love the remasters and Mania, but if I had to point of any aspect of the experience they change that isn't unambiguously better... it's absolutely the reduced leniency on crushing. But that is a direct consequence of the better collision handling, and I don't want to go back to those under-the-level longwarps or lose any of the actively delightful touches, so I'd say it's a fair trade.
     
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  10. Starduster

    Starduster

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    @TheOcelot I think classic mode will just be straight emulation for the sake of purists, and the logistical issue of CD’s soundtrack can easily be solved by just choosing which region you want to play on before booting the game up.
     
  11. _Sidle

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    The GHZ boss's ball sprite in Origin's "Classic Mode" looks and rotates identically to how it does in Retro Engine. [og for comparison] The Retro Engine is capable of playing in 4:3, and does so officially on some tablets to perfectly fill the screen. Very doubtful of Classic Mode being emulation.
     
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  12. RikohZX

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    Classic will probably just be the same games/assets as the Retro Engine stuff, just with none of the new features like Drop Dash or the like. Who knows, maybe playing recordings of the original songs instead of the remastered "cleaner" takes the ports had, too.
    Makes a lot more sense for development reasons to basically downsize the pre-existing ports than to have Headcannon pull up emulation work just for a gimmick mode.
     
  13. TheOcelot

    TheOcelot

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    Thanks for the clarification. I'm happy if Classic Mode is the retro engine versions. I would much prefer this over emulation.
     
  14. Elratauru

    Elratauru

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    Just preordered it on Steam and I can confirm that there is regional pricing (I'm in South America, and I spent around 30 bucks on the Deluxe Digital, in my local currency -Uruguayan Pesos-, obviously).

    I'm super exited to have all these FINALLY in the latest version of the Retro Engine, not only because it's 16:9, and oficially on modern devices, but also because it gives me a reason to replay the whole saga again, the mission mode seems lovely, and I love the Eggman base from Spinball used in the main menu, it's a dumb but cool detail to have on the background.

    And now, for a hot take: While this collection doesn't "invalidate" the originals, I think that for me, it will replace it for sure... I really don't see a point to go back to the originals after having an almost perfect port (hell, CD's port back then was so good that I never wanted to ever touch the MD version again, and I haven't in all these years). Leaderboards, missions, 16:9, all these games running in a newer engine, extra content like artwork, ost's, It's more than enough for me. The only thing that I don't like that much, to be honest, is the green used for the "Origins" logo. Looks clashy.

    To be fair, I also don't care too much if it has the original songs in 3K or not either way, people will mod it, and if not, who cares, we already have the confirmation that these were the original themes anyways, I mean I love Icecap's theme, and speed up Strange in Moscow is great for S3 ending, but the other songs aren't bad either.
     
  15. kyasarintsu

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    Okay, these missions are cool. They remind me a lot of the extra challenges added in Banana Mania. They were a fun way to get extra life out of the stages n that game, and it could work just as well here. I just hope there's a healthy amount of these missions.
     
  16. Screenshot_20220421-033015_Twitter.jpg ^Relevant

    This collection will absolutely replace the genesis originals for me. Of course, I'll always hold those and GameCube Mega Collection in my heart, but for casual play, Origins takes the cake by far.
     
  17. AzuraRacon

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    Yeah it just kinda made sense to me that Classic mode would just be tweaked retro engine versions

    especially CD, cause the alternative is they either quietly developed their own Sega CD emulation shell or ported 26 year old PC code just for an extra mode in a collection.
    And as much as I would LOVE for sega to have a CD emulator lying around I know we aren’t that lucky
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2022
  18. McAleeCh

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    Got to admit, if the Classic Mode versions are also the Retro Engine remakes I'm a little annoyed we're forced to play Classic Mode in 4:3. Surely an aspect ratio option for that mode would be the best solution? That'd allow folks who want the classic lives system to enjoy the original gameplay without sacrificing the improved field of view to do so, while still allowing those who want a more 'authentic' experience to play in 4:3 if they choose. Not a dealbreaker, but I'd love the option to have the best of both worlds and play the widescreen versions without the coins system interfering.
     
  19. shilz

    shilz

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    Special stages in 1 are entirely wrong and nearly unplayable. Movement and collision are not as tight as they should be. It's floaty. Why is 2d classic sonic floaty?

    Would you rather something be 90% accurate and *then* take a turn and add the extra features or be 100% accurate from the start and add extra features? I don't know why my preferred fantasy alternative is seen as such a negative one because... We have too many accurate representations? Have you just seen too many rom hacks that add these same features individually that you can't stand the idea of them being grouped up and united in one pack and given the exact features that are already in this group?

    I have to ask you to consider why they might feel compelled to provide what is potentially a raw emulated experience alongside the "definitive" experience...

    All I said was that I was severely disappointed despite my expectations being set to the baseline of doing what they did when I saw everything else they did and was disappointed by what could've been.
     
  20. Forte

    Forte

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    I'm kinda torn between liking what I see and hating it.

    On one side, we have a nice collection of Classics, with some much needed updates and fancy stuff.

    On the other side, we see a greedy, corporate bullshit DLC politics and not a maximum effort.

    As it is now, I'll pass. If they reveal more information about the collection - addition of playable Mighty, Knuckles and Ray in all of games, some *new* zones (wood zone? The 2P - 1 act zones), I might buy it at price cut.

    I feel like this collection should be a carefully crafted celebration of Sonic and his history - but as of now, it's not. Or maybe should I say, not yet?

    No offence to people making these games, there are a lot of factors and behind the scenes decisions. I'm convinced they are doing their best for Origins to be great.