Sonic Origins Collection - General Thread

Does collision issues mean the stricter crushing of the remake or other stuff involving level terrain?

Weren't the cheat codes enabled through a pre-Plus patch? Or does developer cheats mean something else here?

 

I know I like to be a pedant myself, but it's uncalled for, here. It's obvious from the context what I meant.

Yes, it got patches and DLC, but that doesn't mean it can be considered finished. Especially if one considers "polish" to be part of a finished product.

 

If I'm remembering correctly, on launch Origins didn't have the ropeswing/abseiling ropes in Sandopolis 2. Could call that unfinished, yeah.

 

I just honestly think saying the final version of Origins (Plus or not) is unfinished isn't fair, especially against the original games. They were also rushed despite the stellar job Yuji Naka made on the engine.

Sonic 1 (JP REV) and Sonic 3&Knuckles (locked-on) are ok but look at:

https://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_2_(16-bit)/Bugs

https://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_3/Bugs

https://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_CD/Bugs

And while the Origins bug list is small either, most of them have been fixed as noted by the page itself:

https://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_Origins/Bugs

The worst thing they ever did -- and I'll always resent SEGA for that -- was releasing the Origins Plus physical edition with the PLUS CONTENT LOCKED BEHIND A DLC CODE. That's at least unethical and basically a scam since you're not able to fully enjoy the product you paid for without an internet connection.

 

The state of the original games honestly doesn't enter into the equation here. No one who calls Sonic Origins unfinished is complaining about bugs existing in the original releases.

 

Oh, we're talking about "consensus"? I thought we were talking about the fandom "claiming" something "in unison", like some kind of monolith, and not a "consensus". I don't think anyone's pretending that consensus isn't a thing, but it comes across like you're using the notion as an excuse to obliterate nuance for the sake of some good old finger-wagging.

Yeah, duh, most everybody seemingly wanted these to not be stuck on mobile, myself included. Whether or not the "consensus" was that these were the best versions of these games is kind of irrelevant to that, and whether or not that "consensus" changed after they were ported and more widely played is also irrelevant to that. New and unique version of games I love? Would be cool if those were more widely available! This should be an extremely simple idea to grasp.

Speaking for myself, I had never played the Retro Versions of 1, 2, and 3K, so there were no "initial beliefs" for me to have been wrong about, such as "these are the best versions!" (especially because the last one hadn't existed yet). Surprisingly, the platforms they were on was part of the reason why I had never played them, and wanting to play them was why I wanted them ported to more platforms. Because: most of what I knew about 1 and 2's remakes were that they offered a ton of objective upgrades; more characters, more level design, widescreen, etc. I wanted to play these without having to use touch screen controls, or jump through additional hoops like Cooljerk describes.

Please dispense with this nonsense that you needed to have thought these were the best versions of the games to want them ported.

Without having played them myself, I didn't know about them also having the incorrect hitboxes. After finally having played them, I didn't "decide on a whim" that I think getting crushed at incorrect moments sucks, actually. I hadn't realized that was an opinion I was going to have to form at all. And, well, when it came time to form it, I formed it. I decided by finally playing the games, and realizing that it actually sucks quite a bit to get crushed at the incorrect time. That makes these less fun to play, and it's stupid to insinuate that I'm somehow jerking poor Sega around by thinking so. If I had known this was an issue, I still would have wanted them freed from Smart Phone Hell, because despite that problem they remain interesting and unique versions of the games. Having finally actually played them, and directly experiencing how extremely un-fun it is to get crushed at the incorrect time, I am still thankful to have them.

Please dispense with this nonsense that if you have significant issues with these versions that you are somehow ungrateful that they were ported at all.

Finally, let's not ignore the many issues with the implementations of these ports in the compilation, or pretend that Sega didn't also delist non-Retro Engine versions of these games all over the place right around the time that this came out. These are not non-factors in the negative reaction to this compilation. You can talk about how it doesn't really matter to you personally that they did these things, but they're entirely valid things for people to take issue with. De-listing the original versions of these games, for instance, is probably not something that people asking for Retro Engine ports also asked for. "Having a wish" is actually pretty consistent with "not wanting the finger on a monkey's paw to curl as your wish is being granted". And come on, don't tell me to go re-read this 400+ page thread to find evidence for your claims. If you want me to think people are being hypocrites, and share in your outrage, that's on you to show.

Obviously my own experience doesn't prove that everyone else isn't being an ungrateful and hypocritical simpleton who just changes their mind on a whim, but I kinda doubt that I'm that unique or special.

And now you're just inventing discourse to get mad at. Plenty of people already say that Sonic Adventure was never good. Granted, I guess "no one actually liked Sonic Adventure" is a somewhat different claim, one that would be wild. Even more wild if we're trying to imply, by direct analogy, that not only are people claiming they themselves always hated the Retro Engine games, but that everybody else did too. Who is making these claims??

And of course hardcore fans would attack Sonic Adventure 3: it's had over 2 decades of anticipation to build up in peoples' minds. If that ever gets made, there is no way it is living up to expectations. That's not really (hypothetical) evidence of some scandalous and deeply-rooted tendency toward hypocrisy and ingratitude among the fandom.

You keep mentioning how certain aspects of fandom and discourse online are annoying and tedious, and yet you're exhibiting some of the most annoying and tedious aspects of it. You are putting too much stock into what the consensus seems to be on any given topic, and assuming it even represents a statistically-relevant portion of the fandom. You are outraged that consensus dared to change (if indeed it actually did), and being extremely condescending regarding how and why it may have. You are indignant that it doesn't align with your perspective. You don't seem to grasp that different people comprise the fandom at different points in time, and that not everyone who wanted these ported necessarily did so because they believed they were the best versions (or were even in a position to have a worthwhile opinion on the matter). You're making up new hypothetical things to get mad at. Just a mountain of assumptions and questionable leaps in logic, in service of complaining that people aren't as collectively positive about something as you'd have expected and liked them to be.

A consensus is comprised of individual opinions, and for the crusade that you're wanting to wage, interrogating those individual opinions matters way more.

 

You did make some good points @Zephyr despite your slightly aggressive tone to me - I do try my best not to be rude to individuals and speak about problems in the fandom as a whole. That said.

I didn't downplay the problems in the porting process. I was upfront about the fact that people (myself included) didn't like the loss of certain features of the Mobile versions. You don't need to go 400+ posts back, you can just read my post you quoted! Actually I'll just copy it below.

"I know these versions are worse than the Mobile versions in features". There you go!

I find it quite odd that you wrote a paragraph about this point when I recognised this problem in the very line you quoted (as you express your bemusement at me speaking about the fandom complaining in "unison". Since you couldn't be bothered to read my post properly I've decided I'm not going to bother responding to you properly either and am going to play Marvel Rivals instead

As an aside, where did I imply I was in favour of delisting the games? I'm certainly not a fan of that at all...

 

Okay, yeah, apologies where warranted:
1. The aggressive tone was unnecessary. Although it was in response to the tone of your own posts, it doesn't mean I needed to match it.
2. I know you had mentioned the porting problems, and so "let's not ignore" was very poor wording that ended up mischaracterizing part of your point. "Remember the porting issues you yourself brought up", or something to that effect, would have been the thing to put there. I blame myself for not giving the write-up a few more passes before posting it.

And no, neither of us suggested that you were in favor of delisting the games, but it's an important reason why some are as sour on this compilation as they are, which I think you were overlooking. Like, I wanted these versions to be more widely available, but not for them to be the only versions available. The latter (largely) being the case makes any issues particular to them stand out that much more.

 

Whoevers decision it was to make you return to the level if you stand back in the middle in Hidden Palace when you are getting the hyper emeralds needs to be slapped.

 

I wonder what the future holds for the StealthTax remasters, by which I mean will SEGA just use them from now on for future releases/collections or will they go back to releasing roms of the originals.

They delisted the roms I guess to help push sales of Origins and the remasters are great (minus the bullshit changes SEGA made to them for Origins), but I would like to see a future collection of the roms maybe with CD & S3K getting the same kind of treatment S1 & S2 got in the SEGA ages releases. At the same time I want the new Sonic 3 remaster to get a mobile release with all the fixes Team Stealth weren't allowed to implement before Origins came out.

On a different note....

When I was playing Sonic CD recently I discovered you can activate the drop-dash in Classic Mode immediately after time-travelling (which shouldn't be possible as you can't drop-dash in CM). You need to launch Sonic off of a wall when curled into a ball before you time-travel to get the drop-dash to work:

Yeah it's a dumb decision. I assume this didn't happen in the original version?

 

I could've sworn that was in the original game.

 

It's actually funny that this gets brought up because I'm finally playing the Plus DLC and had that happened to me yesterday with Amy.

I had forgotten it does that. I guess they did that to avoid a softlocked situation?

 

If I remember right, in S3&K it would only teleport you back if you didn't have all of the Chaos emeralds. In Origins it always does it, which is obnoxious.

 

Only if you enter the bonus without getting any Chaos Emeralds, which during regular gameplay you can only do it in the first bonus ring of MHZ.

 

I do have to wonder if they wouldn't have waited for a ground up remaster for S3&K if modifying the ROM with potential MJ music traces left over was ever an option, particularly when they did work with M2 on Sega Ages rereleases that might've fit that description. Also not too crazy on going back to a mobile release for a superior version of these remasters, also might take away from the S3&K selling point of Origins, if Sega would even bother with that after still leaving some stuff unfixed with Origins Plus (or say, how many times they just rereleased SADX but slightly worse or such).

 

I too am also curious with the future of Sonic 3 post-Origins. It seems SEGA has finally found a stable ground with the game whilst avoiding all of the legal trouble surrounding the MJ/Buxer tracks. However plenty more can be done.

I am still in that belief that they should listen to the fans and get off their ass to authenticate the 11/3 prototype. At this point, I am fairly certain they’ve heard the feedback regarding the music; if they decide to still sweep it under the rug and go with what they have, it’s pure incompetence. Just go authenticate it, then pull the files/code needed for that music and remaster it!!

I highly doubt that they would go back to the original ROMs now. They’ve already established a “near” definitive collection of the classic games (in my opinion), they just need to build off of that (fixing the prototype music and adding widescreen Spinball, 3D Blast, and Mean Bean Machine is a start)

An official OST release of 3&K is also long overdue and this is their chance to finally do right and remaster all of those tracks (no more muffled nonsense)

Unfortunately the ball is in their court and we can’t do anything but pester them to wake up and take action. They are literally sitting on money (I know it’s easy for me to say but it’s just frustrating)

 

Honestly I’m shocked they never prepared a version for the MD Mini in collaboration with M2. Chibi-tech or Yuzo Koshiro providing replacement tracks (or even just M2 renditions of the beta tracks) would have been great, and it would have allowed them to have a legal avenue to release a ROM version in collections afterwards.

To me at least, I was surprised that this never happened. Guess we could maybe see something with a future AGES release if they do those again with the Switch 2.

 

I ain't fond of the beta tracks, but if Yuzo did a re-arrangement, I'd be willing to give it a shot.

 

I get what you're saying but surely Manabu Namiki would be the one to tap for that?