Sonic Origins Collection - General Thread

Exactly because of the music. Which was fine until the Internet sleuths started making connections and then unearthing evidence that Michael Jackson had, in one way or another, worked on the soundtrack. Now it's like, well, the estate of MJ probably has enough wealth to do some real financial damage to SEGA if they so fancied over this. Best not include it, yeah?

"Yeah but this community has hacked the PC/proto tunes into Sonic 3 so can't they..." -- there's probably some kinda legal quandary around that too, that we're not privy to. It is what it is, alas.

 

If SEGA were able to release S3K by means of Origins, I've no good reason to believe that they wouldn't be able to release a modified version of an S3K Mega Drive rom.

But regardless, we're getting into unknowns here. SEGA could have tried harder with Origins in any number of ways if they actually cared.

 

They're not native ports, at all. They're remakes, with different hitboxes, a different collision system, and other differences. In the case of Sonic 3 & Knuckles, the remake is outright unfinished.

And no, not everyone cares about widescreen.

 

I think Sonic 3 & Knuckles remake should have been released standalone first and then SEGA chould have done the collection, in that way maybe S3&K wouldn't be that much rushed.

 

If Sonic Adventure 3 were to release the hardcore fans would attack it out of nowhere saying no one actually liked Sonic Adventure and wanted more of it. That's basically what's happened with the hardcore fan reaction to the Retro Engine versions of Sonic 1, 2 and CD.

 

I'm in the camp that plays old games in 4:3 aspect ratios and uses pillar box settings on widescreen displays. I find the whole everything needs to be widescreen to be annoying especially when that's the only version of something available that was once 4:3. Long ago people in the days of CRTs being common place used to actually get annoyed over movies not being panned and having black bars on the top and bottom and fast forward to today and you find people getting annoyed over old shows and games not being widescreen with black pillars on the side. Not everything needs to fill your screen. Not much has changed. Still the same old stuff.

 

There are some people who have consistently criticised the mobile versions like @Shiiz and @Dek Rollins but I always find this aspect of the internet utterly tedious. Everyone says they all thought the Mobile Versions were worse and always said so! Lol. Ok. There were comments from the two above (as linked below) but they were not the popular consensus at all at the time and especially on Retro. They were both mostly argued down.

https://forums.sonicretro.org/index...igins-collection-general-thread.40306/page-67

https://forums.sonicretro.org/index...igins-collection-general-thread.40306/page-69

 

Honestly, thanks to 2013 version of Sonic 1, I barely plays the vanilla game anymore. I just can't go back. The only exception of me playing Sonic 1 nowdays are with Sonic 1 ROM hacks and that's it.

 

Me? I stick to the SEGA AGES version

 

Sorry, not "native ports" but native versions of the game that aren't subject to the same limitations as the originals, the big issue in my books always being slow down.

They're remakes that are virtually 1:1 with the originals with differences so minor that most people won't notice, yet alone even care. I'll grant you that crushing can be more of a nuisance in the remakes, although that's not to say that it wasn't an issue in the originals. Otherwise, the issues that people point out are highly specific and negligible, imo.

Calling Origins S3K "outright unfinished" is total hyperbole. I just can't even begin to fathom on what grounds you can call it that. S3K is my favourite game of all time and I've poured countless hours into it both pre- and post-Origins. By and large it's the same game I've always known. Stick it in classic mode and I'd have to go looking for a way that it deviates from the original (aside from the music, ofc). I could find something, but it's not like the game is teeming with alterations and differences.

 

I'm guessing folks might argue S3&K Origins having somewhat different physics from the OG ROM, even for an RSDK version, which from what I've heard, I think was a result of the new RSDK collision system and wasn't helped by the remaster's rushed development. Despite Origins Plus also being a thing for potential further refinement, but apparently that only used what HC already submitted? It's not too hard to find at least some players that notice that kinda thing, like 2/3rds of that Retronauts Sonic 3 podcast in Dave Bulmer and Shoogles, or Alex Yard, whilst Geek Critique said he didn't notice it much when I asked. Not sure how severely it conflicts with the intended level design or how much of it is noticed because of the player's muscle memory. I'm less familiar with other specific gripes with how the remaster plays besides the crushing and maybe some collision issues. Maybe something about transitions or how Blue Sphere handles?

 

the demand for the mobile releases being ported elsewhere I imagine was fanned further by how Sonic CD 2011 exists on Steam, and yet somehow none of the other rebuilds made it there for reasons no one at Sega has been keen to enumerate. I imagine then too that when Mania came out - running on the same engine - that makes it even weirder.

Additionally. yeah. the state and standards of ROMhacks and other ports changed over time. I remember playing Sonic 2 Delta like six years ago and being thoroughly unimpressed playing it, even though when it released it was an amazing feat of ROMhackery. for a while, the best versions (let's be real - Sonic 2 special stages that aren't motion-sickness-inducing and widescreen allowing for better enemy telegraphing are improvements - "not being able to see enemies before you hit them" has been a criticism of 2D Sonic games for decades) were relegated to mobile releases you had to play with shitty touchscreen controls.

 

I remember BlazeHedgehog saying it was because Sega technically had an exclusivity deal with Nintendo at the time which would've prevented general releases of the S1/S2 mobile versions, at least for that specific point of time.

 

Considering all Mania OSTs ommit S1 and S2 tracks it's clear to me they had to renegotiate a stricter licensing of Green Hill and Chemical plant so they could appear in that game. I imagine a complete remake of the original titles wasn't covered by the OG contract either and pushed multiplaform releases even further. Even in CD's case, it first came out with acapella versions of the OP and ED themes...

 

I honestly believe signing that exclusivity agreement was one of SEGA's biggest mistakes. Tied themselves to the sinking ship of the Wii U

 

Hi, how are ya?

Yeah I still contest the "good enough and/or better/best" angle for these remakes / origins in particular. I can't say that I always did, a lot of the heavy lifting was probably done by coming to realize that I didn't like Mania either from a design standpoint, and then I sort of just found myself realizing all of those little engine quirks and everything else that made all the positive new features feel way less worth it, especially compared to what are basically solved issues to get those features into the old versions as with 3D Sonic 1 / 2 , with existing teams at SEGA that'd be able to help implement the exciting new features in a way that doesn't entirely compromise the overall integrity of the games. People were just fine calling Sonic 3 AIR the best version of Sonic 3 before this and it did basically everything a SEGA Sonic 1 2 CD and 3k "But More" should have done better than what their previously commissioned (and future) remakes offered and worse than the accuracy brought on by even the worst emulations.

My thinking is that it'll be very rare to get *just* these games as Roms or anything close to what they were (legally) from now on, When they commissioned the Sonic 3 and Knuckles remake for Origins, it wasn't just for origins, say one day they wanna put Sonic 3 on mobile or make it available through a subscription or Netflix wants the whole classic series, they won't be using the original rom. They'll take that version whether or not it's indicative of the original experience and give that to whoever. This is just what these games are now, even though it didn't have to be for what SEGA wanted, which was a way to easily hand out the old games for whatever purpose they wanted.

 

"most people" also wouldn't notice if their game consistently ran at a choppy 20 FPS, so that's a rather low bar.

This collection was meant for newcomers to the series, who indeed wouldn't notice anything being off. Series veterans, however, certainly do.

No, it isn't. It's unfinished. Stealth pretty much said so back when Sonic Origins was released.

What's most emblematic of it being unfinished, to me, is Path Tracer. Look at the following screenshot from Sonic Origins Plus:



If you dare to walk against the block that's on spinning wheels, you'll get crushed. Every single time.

 

Just to note: no you didn't. Android game consoles have existed for over a decade at this point, that's precisely what I did. I played the mobile ports of Sonic 1 and 2 on my Nvidia Shield, with a full game controller, way before Origins released. My phone can also output HDMI through the USB slot so, even if I didn't have a shield, I could have played it that way, too.

 

Please review your definition of finished vs unfinished. All major software releases have bugs and QA time is limited.

Origins was indeed released in an unfinished state, but received multiple patches and DLC. As far as we know Amy was implemented by Headcannon, no (a lot of developer cheats were enabled for the Plus DLC).

Anyway, while Origins is a finished product, it's definitely not a very polished one.

 

Yeah PathTracer is... not great. There are so many collision issues that were not present in the original game. Playing S3&K on an emulator is even a better experience.