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Sonic Origins Collection - General Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, May 27, 2021.

  1. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    That section was added by Lapper. It specifically seperates the different speed like top speed and acceleration speed values. I doubt he would have made a mistake given his indepth knowledge and numerous recreations.
     
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  2. kazz

    kazz

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    It does somehow feel like Knuckles is a little heavier on the ground and it always felt to me like he was faster in Sonic 2 than 3&K. I think it might just be that his level paths in 3&K are generally harder/slower paced, with sometimes less emphasis placed on slopes. So it's not that Knux is slower, 3&K's levels just more easily help Sonic/Tails pick up speed.
     
  3. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    The only thing I have ever seen that everyone acknowledge is true is his jump height. This is the first I've ever heard people say he feels slower. From my experience, Sonic has always been seen as the worst of the 3 characters because Tails and Knuckles have Sonic's speed and spin dash on top of their own unique vertical/horizontal air movement options.
    Are there any scans of old guides like previously mentioned that would cause people to believe that was the case? I'm genuinely curious now.
     
  4. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    Knuckles' specific paths are usually designed with gliding and climbing in mind, so yes they're slower in themselves than the routes that Sonic takes. But FWIW, Knuckles usually has at least one act per zone that's mostly the the same as Sonic's.
     
  5. kazz

    kazz

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    My feeling wasn't based on anything technical and I wasn't sure myself and him actually being as fast would explain why he felt as fast in levels designed just for Sonic. Just saying I relate to big smile and HEDGES' feefees. And this is more subjective but I think his "walking" animation looks like he's lumbering more than Sonic or Tails which kinda gives the illusion he's moving slower. That's all the excuses I got.
     
  6. TomGyroid

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    Sonic's got his additional moves and Shield abilities to level the playing field, but a few of those are still absent in some of the games, unfortunately. Still wish there was just one more patch with new cheats like those added to the games like for Mania/S3&K, but maybe someone would've found evidence of that in the code by now.

    I too thought Knuckles was slower because that was mentioned as such in SuperBunnyHop's First Levels of Sonic Games video.

    Just like the regular Drop Dash, right? I also saw someone get some neat mobility out of it for a zig-zaggy part in Marble Garden Zone.

    I wonder if trying to neatly fit Amy into 4 existing sets of game levels without complications or a new gimmick's new level design might've dictated her safer moveset, though maybe that's a fallacy. Like maybe the Springs giving extra height like in Advance would function but not serve the same importance as it would in a game that presumably designed for that ability from the start. But maybe they could've gotten a more original gimmick to flourish in a game that was never meant to account for it, and they just wanted to play it safe with existing material just in case.

    Though if it'd be weird to design a radically different gimmick for games that don't properly utilise that, that doesn't track because Superstars would in that case. Did we know why she doesn't have the double jump that I think she has in that game? They very easily could've. Though by that margin, was it to not diminish Sonic's Electric Shield ability, even if it's a cheat in two games and absent in another? Not sure if Superstars has the Shields.

    Maybe they saw Sonic's Insta-Shield kinda leading into his Drop Dash in Mania/S3&K (the former through the Max Control cheat) and thought they'd make a moveset that more effortlessly combined the two moves. Or just make the two moves a more consistent fixture of a character's ability whilst Sonic still can't Insta-Shield in SCD. Though she's still basically Sonic with a different Insta-Shield when cheated into Classic Mode, even if the single pixel wider hitbox does make a surprising difference.
     
  7. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    If it was me? I would have just gone all out into making Amy the "Kid" mode.

    [​IMG]

    Just give her the shield abilities built into her kit but disguise them as hammer moves. Neutral+Jump would be as it is now with the hammer spin. Forward+Jump for Fire Shield function. Up+Jump for Electric Shield function. Down+Jump for Bubble Shield function. Just stack her up. Who cares about balance at this point. These games are 30 years old, you have Sonic, Tails and Knuckles already. Make her the equivalent of Maria from Rondo of Blood/Symphony of the Night where Amy is the "Fun" mode character. If you can't come up with any cool and new movement options for her then just give her everything.
     
  8. I didn’t realize the thread I clicked on and thought this was related to Frontiers data mining. I would have been furious if the new characters controlled the same as Sonic lol.

    Anyway, I’m surprised people are doubting this 30 years later. You can just boot the games up and do a GHZ1 run as everyone to compare.
     
  9. I find Amy’s instant turn useful in boss fights.

    Also, making Amy’s hammer send her higher on a spring would be detrimental in instances where doing so would hurt her (like that part in Sonic 2’s Metropolis Zone where she would hit ceiling spikes)
     
  10. muteKi

    muteKi

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    I suppose if I had to chalk up the perception to anything, I'd also have said that it's that Knuckles' areas tend to be (if only due to how little space remains in the levels after you cut through all the routes Sonic and Tails have) a lot more winding and narrow, and don't lend themselves to sustained bursts of speed *most* of the time. So Knuckles is slower than Sonic in the sense Marble Zone is slower than Green Hill Zone.

    BUT

    One of the things that isn't getting noted here is that because of Knuckles' lower jump height, sometimes the safest way to clear an obstacle is to glide over it, especially if you're used to the handling Sonic and Tails have jumping and don't hit your jumps where you probably should. When you exit a glide, whether it's by touching the ground, releasing the jump button, or hitting the wall, you lose nearly all your forward momentum. So if you're just pretty good at Knuckles, it's easy to end up playing in such a way that you can't actually maintain your momentum as easily as with Sonic and Tails. Hence, feeling slower, even on routes that might otherwise be the same for Sonic and Tails.
     
  11. Chimpo

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    Need a hack that let's me cancel a glide into a roll and maintain momentum. Also one where I can glide into a roll when landing on the ground.
     
  12. HEDGESMFG

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    I also need flight cancel for Tails. Liked that terribly too much in all the other modded versions.
     
  13. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    I don't recall anything for Knuckles, but for Tails:

    https://info.sonicretro.org/index.php?title=File:Sonic2_MD_US_manual.pdf&page=5

    "trying to keep up" and "[Sonic] leaves him behind" - Sega of America were keen to point out that Tails wasn't as fast as Sonic in the marketing... even though in Sonic 2 and 3 he totally is.
     
  14. BenoitRen

    BenoitRen

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    It was mentioned in a related thread that this collection is for casuals, implying that it's okay that this collection has lots of small issues. While I disagree that casuals don't deserve a polish product, I'd agree that this collection is intended for newcomers... if Sega hadn't delisted every other option save for the mobile remakes and the Switch emulation releases. Clearly this collection is intended as the modern way to play these games, especially when it comes to Sonic 3 & Knuckles.
     
  15. Making Amy, the only female character kid mode though? I hated that in Sonic Heroes.
     
  16. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    Sonic Heroes gutted Team Rose in level length for a faster and easier experience. What I'm proposing is giving Amy steroids in the main campaign.
     
  17. Londinium

    Londinium

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    Make Amy a girl boss, make her slay
     
  18. Snatcher42

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    So whatever happened to the Pix n' Love special edition of this that was teased?
     
  19. muteKi

    muteKi

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    Give Amy 6-8 hits before she takes damage
     
  20. I’ve seen nothing so far since the deleted Tweet. I check every couple days since I planned on getting the PS version from them. Hopefully it’s still happening but it’s definitely odd we haven’t seen anything regarding it yet.