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Sonic Origins Collection - General Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, May 27, 2021.

  1. Sai Start Marker

    Sai Start Marker

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    I must say that with everything I've seen of Origins Plus, the bare minimum I would do would be upgrade my Switch copy and even then, for $9.99, it's still not "a deal". I expected nothing and I'm still a little disappointed.

    Mania Plus added and fixed so much and, probably most importantly for PC players, removed Denuvo. I can almost guarantee that Denuvo will still be present for Origins Plus (even though it shouldn't be), and as a result, I (and many others) will never buy a copy of it, even if it's priced at something ridiculous like $5.99 in a future Steam sale. It's just not worth it.

    I'm gritting my teeth, knowing I'll have to bite the bullet with it for Superstars (ugh), but for a project like this, it completely destroys all motivation to have a copy on my computer. The Decompilations of 1, CD, 2 and Sonic 3 AIR are guarantees that I will never have Origins Plus on my computer. Even if I cared about Amy or Knuckles in CD (and I don't, they've always seemed like really poor additions that they've subsequently failed to sell me on), the community will provide mods based on Origins assets eventually.

    There is no motivation for me to buy this game, and barely any motivation to upgrade it from Origins on my Switch.

    (I am, however, struggling with the physical versions as I love the art for each regional variant and want the art book. But that's my cross to bear, I suppose.)
     
  2. Starduster

    Starduster

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    While Origins as a game is mediocre at worst, but its technical issues are born largely of incompetence and baffling decisions like nesting three perfectly fine games into Hedgehog Engine 2 for the sake of some pretty menus and the bungling of the implementation of new features by SEGA leading to stuff like the Tails respawn glitch. Furthermore, this collection is contextualised by the continuation of SEGA's money grubbing practices that have emerged in the last couple of years, with a confusing digital deluxe package and now Plus withholding Knuckles in CD, content that really should be given for free because it should've been in the base game. Not to mention all this for almost the full price of a AAA release when you can buy the existing Retro Engine remasters for around a tenner (which reminds that the original ROM versions were also delisted on Steam!).

    It's not just about the technical quality of the game, but that SEGA somehow compromised what should've been an easy slam dunk for them, just like with Colours Ultimate, and Origins Plus is turning about to be the antithesis of Mania Plus is many ways.
     
  3. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

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    Guys, stop shaming others who want to buy this. Some of you aren't saying it directly, but you're implying it and need to get over yourselves. No one is "supporting garbage" if they get something out of it. I get your disappointment, but frankly you are all being toxic as hell and bringing out the worst in this community.

    Get some perspective. This collection is also aimed outside of this community at a huge chunk of the audience who will never notice 90% of what we're complaining about, with things a lot of players will get legitimate enjoyment from. These games have wild upgrades compared to every other version most players have had access to in so many ways. Again, the lack of officially supported ROMS on most platforms for preservation's sake does suck... and I get complaining about things like poorly implemented music (and sound in the GG Emulation case), but even 'that' affects maybe 3-5 songs if we're being really honest (Ice Cap is NOT that different from the proto version).

    I was angry as hell when Origins broke Sonic 3's physics, because the resulting deaths happened during relatively normal gameplay. But a lot of those initial issues were fixed, and more likely will be. Is Amy's implementation not ideal? Yes, it looks that way, but can we at least 'play' it before acting this way? I don't care if you personally don't buy it, but a lot of us (and more to the point, many more people outside of the community) are still going to and you need to deal with it, because there will still be things in this players, myself included enjoy. This applies even moreso outside of this community, and it always has. And the price of this collection is going to drop like a rock and be cheap as hell soon so stop getting bent over shape over a 10$ DLC. I don't care what Mania got us in 2018, that 10$ barely even pays for a fast food meal these days in this inflation era.

    Sonic retro does not own the classics. Even classic Sonic stuff is much bigger than this community. If the reality is we never get exactly what we want (which is literally subjective from user to user, very, very subjective), you all need to start learning to deal with that, rather than going around and implying one of our best community developers is incompetent just because they made choices you disagree with.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2023
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  4. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    I'm seeing more footage and these Amy sprites, I'm afraid I think the sprite work does not hold up to the standards of a fine, polished product. There are a few animations where she is fine, but those sprites end up sticking out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the set. There's a lot of inconsistencies with staying on model (push and skidding for example) and a lot of her animations lack personal flair (walking, running, CD special stages). The most painful one to look at is the hammer spin animation with its obvious 4 frames. Accurate hardware colors would have also helped her blend in with the rest of the game's assets easier. She doesn't have to have the color limit since she's not bound by hardware limitations. But you have the entire game have off whites and here comes a pink hedgehog running down the opposing lane with blinding LED headlights. She's going to stick out.
    Why should I do that? I'm not posting outside this community. I'm on Retro to make Retro post, not Reddit posts for upboats.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2023
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  5. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    I'm not being derogatory of people who want to buy this, especially in all likeliness I will eventually do so anyway. I see the want of this, since it does make the collection more complete, it's just really annoying and disappointing that they went about it in the most bare bones way possible and what's more upped the price from Mania Plus.
     
  6. Some people buy $20 skins, I'll buy this $10 dlc. They did lose me on double dipping on a physical or two though
     
  7. Sai Start Marker

    Sai Start Marker

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    I don't find "keep consuming product, think of inflation" to be that compelling of an argument. I know that you probably weren't referring to me directly, HEDGESMFG, but Mania's DLC doing so much for the base game shouldn't be ignored. That sort of love and care should be the standard. I know the gaming industry is in a state where most developers can say "hey who cares, they'll buy it anyway" and get away with it, but I think being annoyed by that is also valid.
     
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  8. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    Well, at least now there's only Metal Knux & Tails Doll left for a Sonic R remake to be possible ^^"

    (Why do I feel like I already wrote this joke before? :V)
     
  9. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    There are some glaring sprites in places (not a fan of her signpost art) and I'm not big on how her palette is kind of inconsistent, and out of place florescent in some footage, almost looking like a Super form palette. The spritework I admit is something I'm a bit more empathetic towards because, well, i done Amy across those games myself and am STILL not satisfied with how mine turned out after a decade of tweaking.

    I do appreciate they bothered to make most of Amy's art unique rather than taking the obvious short cut of editing Sonic's sprites, and I love the Advance levels of expressiveness Amy has in some animations. Shame that's about the only thing they were willing to take notes from with that game.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2023
  10. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

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    Your first sentence proves my exact point. "Straight up suck" is being toxic as hell and is exactly the type of talk that you need to rethink. Not because you're not allowed to criticize something, but because the standards you seem to expect are insanely out of line with what makes the vast majority of the audience this is aimed at happy.

    And yes. I'm tired. I've been doing this song and dance for 25 years now and it gets old. Posting in this community is no excuse to insult the designers over your own niche expectations.
     
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  11. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    Regardless of community, one should try to be as respectful and polite as possible.
    Toxicity and rudeness only fuel conflict and bad conversation. Not productive at all.
    (But I'm no role model, mind me, I know sometimes I also slip up a little... ^^")
     
  12. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Ya I don’t think Amy’s sprites suck necessarily but in trying to make a hybrid set of sprites that work in all instances they ended up not matching any of them. They stick out, far more than say Mighty and Rays Mania sprites and those had some inconsistencies too.

    Sign post is very mediocre looking though and looks fan gamey. Sorry :/

    Also in Sonic 3 Amy’s name on the result tally is the same color as Sonic’s. Lame. They couldn’t make it pink?
     
  13. AzuraRacon

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    The way some of y’all talk about this you’d think it’s Sonic Genesis levels of botched instead of just, like, fine and playable if underwhelming in the supplementals
     
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  14. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    This, exactly this.
     
  15. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    Are you going to tackle the points brought up or hyper focus on my language? I have nothing to say to you then. Carry on and have a nice day.
    I think you've done a phenomenal job. I mean it helps that you had no choice but to stick to limitations, but still, well done. I consider your set to be the definitive Classic Amy look. I speak from experience myself and I know it is not an easy task to maintain consistency. There are still things I wish to touch up on the old Tails sprites myself. I think some of the special stage ones just straight up suck and the ramp sprites need more tweaking
    I think there's just a general lack of understanding why being aware of the limitations were important. I only have these colors to work with? How can I make each one pop and count? I only have 4 frames for this animation? Should I use some tricks to better sell this motion? The little things add up a lot. Was saying "I'm afraid I think the sprite work does not hold up to the standards of a fine, polished product" harsh? Sure I don't care though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2023
  16. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    I think it's more the price tag and fanfare that makes it feel like a lot of nerve on SEGA's part.

    Amy being playable is an extra annoyance, since they're clearly trying to make that a huge push that is carrying over into other games, and yet couldn't be remotely bothered to make an interesting ongoing moveset for her. If it were just a minor extra that came in the vanilla game it would be more a 'meh' thing but this "WHOOOO, PLAYABLE AMY, WE DID IT!!!!" push for the centerpiece of this extra $10 DLC is pitiful.

    If you're gonna be lazy SEGA, don't PROMOTE it. :P
     
  17. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    Do you just want back to back post saying nothing but that? "Aww jeez this was a let down, right bros?"
    Psi is discussing gameplay
    I'm discussing the new art.
    Sai us bringing up pricing.
    We're all just bringing up different weak points to discuss. You can choose to engage in those or ignore the post. No one is forcing you to read them.
     
  18. HEDGESMFG

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    Sorry, but it's obvious here a lot of you are completely clueless about the state of creatives in entertainment right now and what they're dealing with, both in game development and in other places. As someone who has worked under these circumstances, I'm trying to hold my tongue so I don't become toxic, but this 10$ point really sets me off because so many of you seem to not grasp just how bad of a state game development has been in for the past 10 years for developers. I don't think games need to be 100$ or anything, but guys... just... man. 10$. Seriously.

    I'll just leave it at that, and say it probably is a big reason why we don't have a Mania 2 now. SEGA certainly has a responsibility to deal with that problem and clearly has a real share of fault, but complaining about the difference in 5-10$ in a DLC genuinely makes the situation so much worse because it directly leads to their poor decisions.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2023
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  19. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    I have an inkling of an idea of how things may be going on in each backstage, but seems to me even that inkling was only a drop in an ocean...
     
  20. kazz

    kazz

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    A bigger tip for the producer isn't going to stop the producer from treating the developer like shit.
     
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