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Sonic Origins Collection - General Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, May 27, 2021.

  1. astroblema

    astroblema

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    the budget for this was a McDouble and a half-chewn Dorito
     
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  2. Vertette

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    I expected nothing and Sega still manages to disappoint me. They should get an award for this or something.



    Check that SEGA at 3:40, warning for being VERY loud. How did this pass ANYTHING?
     
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  3. RikohZX

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    It doesn't even seem like the game's really patched up or anything. Strange choices like Sonic CD having the special stage render resolution downsized to seem more pixelated compared to the 2011 release's crystal-clear graphics, the music loop problems are still there, etc.
     
  4. GoldeMan

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    The Game Gears implementation is about as good as I expected, which is to say it looks barebones at best and terrible at worst. I guess it doesn't get as bad as the Sega Smash Pack on Dreamcast... but if that is the bar this intended to jump over then they were aiming low. Those sound issues can not believe exist in this full priced compilation (for new players or 15 for old). It was already sketchy at 40 bucks but now at 60 this is an absurd lack of quality control

    Which is all to say this is exactly as expected from SEGA. Can't have one good thing go (Superstars rollout so far) in the Sonic franchise without another laughable disaster in the making attempting spiking the good will into the ground.

    It's more funny then anything that Mega Collection Plus from 2004 seems to arguably still be the definitive way to play most (not all) of the 90s 16-bit and 8-bit collection together.
     
  5. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    I hope at least there's some sort of volume control for two player mode. Both screens blaring at once got grating fast in SADX/Mega/Gems, especially since they didn't really keep in sync.

    Shame they didn't keep the option to just split screen at whim on all the games like in SADX, it was a neat touch to do a makeshift VS race on Chaos and such.
     
  6. jubbalub

    jubbalub

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    The "surprise" is kinda neat:
    [​IMG]

    To be fair that is basically how it sounds in the original
     
  7. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

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    I want a Knuckles in Sonic CD playthrough. The tweaked stages and potential bugfixes are still what I care about most.



    lol, Amy and Tails in S2...

    Why is all this only in Sonic 2, guys?
     
  8. Chaos Rush

    Chaos Rush

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    That new character select screen is ridiculous lmao
     
  9. kazz

    kazz

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    Bootleg attempt to replace S2 Pink Edition
     
  10. MastaSys

    MastaSys

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    They really want to sell plain garbage...
    There's no point on any of the packs. Price? Value? None. Is this some kind of spite against how Mania was sold?

    SEGA begging people to do romsharing at this point.

    I'll watch the english asian market, they sometimes get carts without digital download bullshit.
    But i won't expect anything at this point. I don't have anything to look foward in this now.

    Now let's see how Sega will manage to ruin Superstar's first impressions with one simple deadbrain decision. Because they most likely will. Zero faith at this point.

    Freaking Pachinko Casino it's all they are...
     
  11. Laura

    Laura

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    Origins Plus looks really bad..I really didn't expect this but I have no interest in it now and won't be picking it up.

    I always agreed that Amy not using the game colours was not a great idea but it is really bad in motion in Sonic 1 particularly. It really does look like a character mod from 10 years ago. In a way that Mighty and Ray did not. Simply because it isn't adhering to the game's colour scheme.

    Amy also just looks really unfun. The hammer spinning move is fun but that hammer drop dash looks so janky and weird. It also uses the Sonic drop dash sound effect too so I just find it a bit disorientating. Amy revving up a...brisk walk with hammer whacking. Okay?

    And I know this will be unpopular...

    To be honest, I'm starting to wonder if Stealth himself may have dropped the ball here. He's very talented no doubt, but his work on Sonic 3 wasn't great and this implementation of Amy,'s hammer abilities seems very jank. He keeps blaming SEGAs implementation and I wonder if we are giving him too much benefit of the doubt. It also seems from leaked footage that not much if any of the glitches have been fixed.
     
  12. jubbalub

    jubbalub

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    What's really puzzling to me is that Amy's moves are markedly different from Superstars. The moveset is generally "the same", but the move themselves have different behavior.

    In Superstars, the hammer spin is activated immediately when you jump, and lasts for as long as you hold the button. Double jumping uses the same rules. In Origins Plus, however, you have to press the button again in midair to activate the hammer spin, and there's also no double jump. This isn't really any better or worse, just different, but it does make her feel more similar to Sonic with the Insta-Shield, and it's certainly more unique in Superstars.

    The real sore spot is the Hammer Dash, which you activate the same way as the Drop Dash. In Superstars, you can freely control your movement, swinging your hammer for as long as the button is held. In Origins Plus, Amy just moves forward at a set speed. You can turn around instantly at full speed, and it only lasts a set amount of time. From the looks of the gameplay footage it doesn't even look like it respects slopes. The fact that it doesn't give you control over these things makes it much less interesting to use.

    Amy also has some really weird sound effect choices. She uses the Chemical Plant balls sfx for her hammer spin, using the regular Drop Dash sfx for charging the Hammer Dash, and when you destroy an enemy with your hammer it replaces the badnik break sfx with a weird ping sound. Amy is just inexplicably inconsistent. This is especially baffling to me because this DLC and Superstars were being developed around the same time. Superstars was conceived before Origins itself was finished, and I imagine Amy was intended for that game first given the focus on 4-player co-op. What exactly caused this to be so inconsistent with her gameplay in Superstars, and why is it implemented so poorly and with seemingly little care?

    Honestly, this entire collection has left a sour taste in my mouth. I already thought it wasn't great to begin with, but this DLC really settles it. $10 for some Game Gear games that aren't well emulated (despite not having an issue with them in the past), a jankily-implemented new character with not much depth, and Knuckles in Sonic CD is really, SERIOUSLY locked behind the DLC instead of just being a fucking base game feature like he should've been when the game came out.

    If you like it, great, more power to you. It's still a solid way to experience the classics. But this could've been better. These games DESERVED better. A crying shame.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2023
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  13. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    It reminds me of one of the Backbone TMNT arcade emulated games where you had a shitty UI to select a character, and then it just loaded a save state.
     
  14. Starduster

    Starduster

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    One of my gripes with the hammer dash, besides it just being a drop dash reskin with nothing interesting to it, is the animation just doesn’t look good to me. It’s not like the sprites are bad or the animation quality isn’t there, but the action just doesn’t work on a conceptual level for me. Amy actives it from a curled pose but goes into an upright pose and nothing about the posing conveys going any faster, not to mention Amy turning to face the screen at a 3/4 angle is just bizarre. I would’ve had her spin the hammer around herself, bringing to mind Espio’s and Blaze’s tornado-like jump “balls”, maybe even have the spin lean into the direction of travel like Espio’s spindash. This would also be a good opportunity to rectify the turning by giving this action different physics that allow for a slow turn in the opposite direction, like sliding on a polished floor. It would be a subtle difference from the drop dash, but a difference nevertheless.

    Anyway, this whole thing looks crap to me. Amy looks dissatisfying, odds are the GG emulation is crap, SEGA’s put in only the bare minimum levels of effort and Knuckles in CD being locked behind the expansion when he really should be a free addition is galling. I sincerely wish all the best to the independents who worked on this - Stealth, APlusStart, Mr. Potato Badger and the like - but I have absolutely no interest in sinking more money into this misfire, and I’ve no trust left for future Sonic remakes/remasters and will be waiting until seeing impressions after the release of such things from now on. The right thing for SEGA to do would be to go back in and actually put in the time and effort to bring the collection up to snuff on their side (Game Gear emulation, anything broken by HE2 implementation, etc.), even giving the independent devs more time and money if needed (please god let APlusStart redo the hammer dash animation - I fully believe it’s flaws are nothing to do with him) and pushing that update free of charge. However, I’m not holding my breath. SEGA has shown themselves to be nothing but greedy and apathetic when it comes to this stuff and I feel sorry and embarrassed for the people who’ve worked on this who actually care about Sonic, because they deserve better than to be associated with such a stain too.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2023
  15. big smile

    big smile

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    Every thing about Plus is so shoddy

    Amy - Why don’t they have a dedicated button for her hammer? In the Origins ending, she is shown smashing spikes. Why didn’t they include something like that just to make her more different from Sonic?

    Character menus - Adding the extra character options makes those horrible menus look even uglier.
    And why are they so inconsistent? Sonic 2 lets you play as Sonic & Tails, Knuckles & Tails and Amy & Tails.
    Sonic 3 is missing Knuckles & Tails. And Sonic 1/CD have none of them.
    It’s just so bizarre.

    Game Gear games - Sega’s own Mega Drive Classics is a decent emulation package with options likes quick save, multiple save states and rewind. This just seems to have save/load, which accessed through the clunky menu.
    And why didn’t the retain the option to play any of the titles in 2P like you could in SADX?


    On the Origins website, it says the following:
    *Several bugs and actions have been fixed.
    Various improvements have also been made through user feedback.


    Where are these improvements?

    In Stealth’s tweets, he says the following:

    We were excited to hear that SEGA wanted to make Amy playable, and we couldn’t resist an opportunity to help her into the spotlight! New playable characters need new sprites, and our own @AStartShow was certainly up to the design task while @DashPadSPD performed data management.
    Knuckles is now playable in Sonic CD, as well! As with the inclusion of playable Amy, we were thrilled to provide some new graphics to complement SEGA’s efforts in making this possible.
    Alongside SEGA’s work in updating the collection, we were also able to supply a few additional updates and enhancements to help make the title the best it can be! We appreciate their openness to our feedback and suggestions.


    It sounds like Headcannon is just providing the art and suggestions and maybe some minor coding.

    There’s no way Stealth would put out something this bad. There has to be something else going on. I think Headcanon were given a very short leash to do stuff and Sega handled the bulk of it.
     
  16. RikohZX

    RikohZX

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    Yeah, I'm getting the feeling Headcannon's going to be thrown under the bus (again) for something that frankly reeks of Sega's internal team screwing us again a year later.
     
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  17. E-122-Psi

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    I think the huge downside to Amy is simply that nothing she utilises feels unique. All her controls are just varients of Sonic's, comparing to mashing jump to fly as Tails and holding it and maintaining swooping momentum as Knuckles or just climbing up and down on walls. She is basically a skin with a couple minor after effects that run different.

    To me the walking hammer attack could have simply been her own spin dash animation, and then maybe focused on different jump abilities to make her gameplay more unique. Maybe double jump could be activated by up and jump in air, and her downward slam by down and jump in air, giving her the power of Sonic's shields abilities permanently (albeit still with some nods to her older gameplay sets) at the cost of not having his Drop Dash, that remains his one very different skill.

    I'm even tempted to say have her spin dash and up and jump peel out so you could give her the hammer jump ability from Advance via down and jump or maybe even her leap move. There's just.....WAY better ideas for Amy here.

    At the end of the day however, Amy's moveset seems to be have been designed from Superstars, not Origins. Origins is slightly jankier but it is the total lack of innovation inherited from the former that they likely wanted to keep it mostly uniform with here. She has the misfortune of being Superstars first blatant slip up and as such likely the worst thing to translate to another game.
     
  18. big smile

    big smile

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    The worst thing about Plus is that it puts players in a catch 22.

    I feel I should buy it on day 1, because if it does well, then Sega might bring Headcanon back for more work. And they deserve to do more with the franchise.

    I know nothing about game development. And it could be that adding Knuckles to Sonic CD and Amy to everything is harder than we realize. But it doesn't feel like that at all. It feels like a cash grab. And I don’t like being ripped off.

    EDIT: Just to clarify: I do not hold Headcannon responsible for the cash grabbing. As I stated earlier, I think Sega gave Headcannon a short leash and Sega did the bulk of the work in Plus, so the short comings of Plus are due to Sega.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2023
  19. RikohZX

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    Also mind you, I'm not surprised there is no Sonic/Knuckles/Amy & Tails options in CD. That would require the effort of not just putting Knuckles into the game, but also coding an AI partner into a game that never had it. Knuckles and Amy by themselves are one thing, that's a whole different league of effort for a game where a Tails would get stuck everywhere.

    The character select screen is still dogshite though.
     
  20. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    At the same time however, I look at this so far and it seems like SEGA didn't really give Headcanon freedom to do much, still several bugs and new additions are disappointing, the most significant confirmed addition they added were Amy's sprites.

    At worst this gives the idea that SEGA just used Headcanon as an appealing figurehead to try and market their material as having competent handling, while actually not letting them do much, which is actually a pretty slimy tactic. I want Headcanon to get work, but I want it under respectful employers who actually let them use their full potential.