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Sonic Origins Collection - General Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, May 27, 2021.

  1. Vanishing Vision

    Vanishing Vision

    This too. In all the other bosses, Eggman is a relatively small target that keeps moving around, and you have to follow and leap after him. If you need to grab dropped rings, you've got to get them quick and get right back to keeping up with Eggman's pattern. In the Death Egg boss, his big weak spot is right there in front of you, just guarded by his hands. If at any point those hands weren't a threat, you could instantly smack him two or three times in a row with little effort.

    Plus, it makes sense from a narrative standpoint. Sonic's cornered on Eggman's home turf by the most powerful robot yet, and he's without his only source of protection, but he's still got to win somehow, there's no way to give up or turn back now.

    It is certainly something an easy mode could alter, not really too different from how Knuckles is already hard mode due to his short jump, but I think the Sonic 2 last battle is a great thrill the way it is.
  2. Overlord


    Now playable in Smash Bros Ultimate Moderator
    Berkshire, England
    Long-term happiness
    It does drastically shift the game's difficulty curve though - well, more like a cliff.

    For me, S2 is breeze through every level with no real issues, collecting lives and continues while not using a single one - then reach DEZ, and spend a good chunk of them to do a single boss (because Silver Sonic is piss-easy, I've not died to him outside of silly mistakes in years).
  3. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

    Virginia, USA
    Paying off student loans
    I feel like getting that first hit is hard, but once you do, the times when he's open to attack from below has a simple rhythm.

    Back to DER, I typically only need 2-3 lives on him. More if I'm Knuckles (sometimes I'll try to rush the boss by hitting him in the crotch, but that's a much smaller hitbox, so I'm more prone to fucking it up).
  4. Billy


    RIP Oderus Urungus Member
    Colorado, USA
    Indie games
    At least it's not the "slap of death" from Sonic Advance 2.
  5. JcFerggy


    Do you want to taco 'bout it? Member
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    GoldenEye: Source, Other Stuff
    Maybe I'm just overthinking how modern Sega would handle such a mode. It would be easy enough to just Sonic Jam' it and have a simple difficulty selector before playing each game. Hell, the options from Jam would really lend itself to the current situation (Normal, Easy, & Original). Normal would be what we everyone here ideally would play, with small changes to layout to account for Tails and Knuckles and maybe some other fan favorite changes like making sure there is 3 rings by each checkpoint. Easy could be either how Jam handled it, with modified/removed levels to streamline the experience, but I would prefer just some minor layout/object placement changes to remove cheap enemies and spikes, with the removal of lives for infinite retries, then Original would be roms running on an emulator, similar to how the Sega Ages had the Mega Play version of Sonic 1 (Would be cool for this collection, but I understand it not being), and could be unlocked by completing a run through each game with any character.

    With the originals being there as roms representing their 90s release, it would allow the collection to add additional features that would take them away from being a straight port collection. I know I'm being greedy, but I would love for an additional character or two. Amy with her Advance moveset (Pick any of the 3, or combine the best features of each), Metal Sonic with a Rush'like boost system. Give me lock-on technology if you already own Sonic Mania Plus to add Mighty and Ray to the roster. Give me DLC for Chaotix and have those 3 playable.

    I know I'm being completely unrealistic in many regards, but honestly Sega is going to have to do something to earn my purchase, as I already have the 4 games offered playable in widescreen with many many more community features that I sometimes don't know where to start. Give me an Egg Shuttle style mode where I can start Green Hill and go act-to-act to Doomsday Zone. Give me an Egg Gauntlet styled boss rush. Give me that Mania styled 2-4 player splitscreen so I can bother my non-sonic friends to race me for an evening. Just something!
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
  6. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

    Working on my art!
    Sonic 2's final boss is what kept me from beating that game legit for 7 years. Granted it was the first game I ever played when i was 4, so I was still young. I beat the game finally as Tails oddly enough.

    My biggest issue is just it's bs hit box. You can fall through so easily and just die, if you bounced off it like you should it might not be so bad.
  7. qwertysonic


    creating the biggest sonic collection
    Same here. I didn't actually beat Sonic 1 and 2 (without using level select) until like college. They are legit hard games and the final bosses are brutal. I'm not saying they should have been easier since nearly every platformer in the 90's was pretty difficult, but an easy mode for Origins might be well received.
  8. SystemsReady


    I Have No Idea What I'm Doing At Any Given Moment Member
    The Twin Cities
    trying to not fall asleep while writing Selenium tests
    I actually have never beaten Sonic 2. Ever. And it is entirely because of the death egg robot, and how when you die, you better pray you keep the death egg robo pattern in your skull while you're fighting Silver Sonic, because if you've forgotten it you will die...again......... right off the bat because the game doesn't really telegraph very well which bits can take damage and which bits will instantly kill you.
  9. Prototype


    I feel like I know why this was announced even though there's scant information about it available. If Sonic Team had JUST announced the Colours remake, people on the classic side of the fence would have been like "WHAT? TYPICAL SONIC TEAM. IGNORING THE CLASSIC FANS, BLOODY IIZUKA!"

    So even though they won't really give us details and want us to get hyped for Colours, announcing it alongside the Colours remake was probably a good business strategy to offset the more vocal Retro-style fans, thus ensuring that people get hyped for both.

    Honestly though, after all the good will that Mania brought, I really hope it's not done without Christian Whitehead and some of the others.
  10. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    Classic Eggman art Member
    The final boss of S1 is the one in Labyrinth zone, it's just misplaced. Final zone is really easy and the hardest part means crushing so rings wouldn't help you anyway, but there's enough time to avoid said crushing and the lightning balls telegraph you were to place yourself. Labyrinth zone lets you choose between drowning or rushing recklessly with high amounts of bad luck playing against you. Scrap Brain act 3 is mecha labyrinth zone, so it's even fitting to put it there.

    Now, the real deal, the S2 final boss. I watched some music remixes from Sonic 2 on youtube the other day which contained footage from the original version, and it was the first time in my life (I never watch playthrough videos) that I saw there was a safety distance to avoid the rocket hands; I played that boss by doing hit-and-miss tries of avoiding them, which was what took away most of my lives (I essentially gathered lives and continues through just to deal with that boss, I used to die dozens of times before winning). The surprise spikes when hitting the belly were something to be careful of, but if I knew about the hands distance thing I would have played it safe and won quickly, I guess. I never tried to beat S2 as Knuckles, I thought the final boss was outright impossible so I never even bothered to finish a full playthrough.

    I haven't made full playthroughs of S2 since the 90's, btw. Maybe when this collection or the mobile remasters finally make their way officially to a platform I want to play them on.
  11. The Other RaFaél

    The Other RaFaél

    I'm just a guy and a man and a dude and I'm hungry Oldbie
    Detroit, Michigan, USA
    Fatherhood, husband...hood and a few mobile apps.
    A neat pattern that I (think I) noticed about the Final Zone for years was that depending on how the energy balls drop, one can sometimes predict which piston vessel Eggman will be in. At least it seems that way to me; like if two energy balls descended into one cylinder area, it was likely that Eggman would appear in that cylinder vessel. It wasn't always a sure thing, it but it helped me out a lot *shrugs*.
  12. TheOcelot


    Scooty Puff Jr sucks! Member
    In the 4Gamer interview (which @Pengi just made a new topic about), Iizuka talks about adding elements to Origins which makes it easier for beginners:

    I think this pretty much implies Origins will have some sort of "easy mode" perhaps where the lives system will be removed.
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
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  13. Not an emulator definitively confirmed.

    And yet people online with still bitch about it possibly being emulation- I'm calling it lmao
  14. With every small piece of detail we are finding out, this collection is definitely looking to be the modern day Sonic Jam and that is a good thing for us oldies who know these games inside out and the new young players who are getting into the franchise
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
  15. Hmm...

    Imma bring up a discussion point. I've seen it tossed around on the internet since Sonic Central that people want Origins to be the next huge sonic compilation title. However, there's a discrepancy- people can't seem to decide whether or not it should be the next Sonic Jam or the next Sonic Mega collection- and I'm curious to know based on what metrics people are making these wishes.

    I'm in the Mega Collection camp, but not for why you think... when I look at the Mega Collection vs Jam debate, I'm not thinking about content, or delivery, I'm mostly thinking about sales and legacy. Jam was released on the dying Sega Saturn which, even then, was hot off the heels of the Genesis and the classic sonic games just a few years prior. There wasn't some huge hiatus of classic content the fans were starved for or anything, Sonic Adventure wasn't even out yet, the classic games were literally all there was, basically.

    Compare that to Mega Collection: Adventure 2 Battle had just released, and for the first time ever, Sonic was coming to other consoles. With Sonic Advance literally fresh out of the oven, it was a brilliant move imo to show all these new fans coming in where these Sonic games got their start. We're in the same boat now. The Sonic movie just released a year ago, and new fans are supposedly pouring in. My local comic shop has been completely selling out of any archie comics they get in, and they told me that never happened until after the movie came out. So clearly there's a huge boom (a sonic boom, if you will) in intrest for the blue blur.

    Yes, these supposed new features sound incredible, but if I had to choose between this being Jam 2 or Mega Collection 2, well, you guys know my stance and hopefully understand my reasoning. Mega collection was my first Sonic game ever, and I'm really hopeful Colors Ultimate and Origins will be the current generation's SA2B and SMC.
  16. Josh


    I think you both actually want the same thing. :V Jam was a collection teeming with new features, modes, and obscure treats for long-time fans. It was made at a time when the original Sonic Team was all still together, and it was a "compilation" in the true sense of the word: Not just of a bunch of ROMs on a disc, but a compilation of everything that had defined the series to that point. It was worth owning even (and especially!) if you already owned all the games it contained. It was a treat for diehard, longtime fans that also could've worked perfectly (and was in fact INTENDED) to introduce the series to an unfamiliar audience. Of course, because it came out on the Saturn, it was never gonna have a chance to do that.

    Mega Collection was a tremendous letdown to us diehards a few years later, because as soon as we heard, "collection of Genesis games," we dreamed of something that would live up to (or even exceed!) Sonic Jam. Instead, it was a bunch of ROMs on a disc, wrapped in a really well-done menu system. It had extras, but they weren't deep cuts, they weren't anything we hadn't seen before. It didn't even have a 3D museum!

    But like you said, "outpacing Sonic Jam" in terms of fanservice wasn't really Mega Collection's function, anyway. And it didn't have to, because the only people who even knew what Sonic Jam was were us weirdos who'd actually bought Sega Saturns. Mega Collection was meant to capitalize on the new market Sonic had found by going third-party, and introduce a new generation of gamers to the classics, games that released on consoles they were too young to have ever played. And I shudder to think how much more broken the fanbase might've been if we didn't have that common ground. It was monumentally important!

    What we're hoping for with Origins is a compilation with the content of a Sonic Jam, but the success of a Mega Collection.
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  17. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    Classic Eggman art Member
    Josh pretty much Ninja'ed me, but I'll say it anyway:

    Sonic Jam had classic Sonic in 3D to some extent in a nice museum hub with nice museum content. Being Jam 2 or Mega Collection 2 pretty much depends on this, but it would be closer to [insert name] Collection if it had more than the already stated games.
  18. You bring up a very interesting debate and I’d love to chime in on this too: while you are more about sales and legacy, I’m more about the content the collection will provide:

    When it comes to Jam vs Mega Collection, the only main differences in terms of content between the two are Sonic World (Jam), the spin-off games + some non-Sonic games (Mega Collection), and some cool extras like art (Jam & MC) and comic covers (MC).

    While I dig the comic art and other nice character art , it’s not something that I will go back to look at every time I boot up Mega Collection. It’s a nice novelty, but at the end of the day, the main focus and time will be spent on the games themselves and in terms of the Genesis era, it doesn’t get any better than the main trilogy.

    I know there’s fans out there who don’t mind Spinball, 3D Blast, and MBM, but these games don’t have a lasting legacy like 1,2 and 3&K do. To throw a bit of my personal experience in here, I had more frustrating times completing 3D Blast and Spinball (never beat MBM since I don’t play Puyo Puyo). The main trilogy was the juggernaut that sold wonders for SEGA and they are considered the best of Sonic by most fans. This is what I think makes Sonic Jam stand out more in my opinion and why I prefer Origins goes that way in terms of content.

    You get the best of the best PLUS Sonic CD, add in 16:9 native widescreen, no emulation.. this equals the possibility of having the definitive versions of the classics in one collection. The extra content and features added will all depend on who is developing it.

    Jam and MC had their own flaws in terms of how the games were ported or emulated, so if the Origins developers take their input from these two collections, they have to really make sure the games are as definitive as can be and add content that is worth checking out and will make each player go back to every time they boot it up.

    The potential is there for Origins, it’s just all dependent on who’s putting it together (which I’ve stated since the beginning of this thread)

    EDIT: As I’m trying to post this, Josh makes some valid points that add to my overall take. While I do prefer Origins be the Sonic Jam of today, I hope that with the new audience the franchise has gained, it has the success and longevity of Mega Collection.
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
  19. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    Classic Eggman art Member
    Sonic CD is also the best of the best. :colbert:
  20. raphael_fc


    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    Sonic CD is the worst of the best.