Sonic Origins Collection - General Thread

How would u feel about a move-set where Amy had her origins/superstar hammer jumball (but no double jump) and could press down to roll… but instead of spindashing; when u press down and the action button you do the hammer jump/flip from Advance 1? Would that be a good compromise between the Advance and Superstar movesets? Or would u still be unsatisfied?

 

Given that a post in this thread is what inspired me to mention this in the Superstars thread, I suppose I'll bring it full circle by bringing what I posted there to this thread.

Granted, it looks like Origins may implement her a little differently than Superstars from the available footage, but I'd still call the idea a happy medium that maintains consistency with classic movesets and the one-button approach.

 

It's hard to say really. I get the issue since Amy would need a really versatile signature move to keep up to par with the others, and it becomes even more difficult if they keep the one button rule.

I think the problem stems more from the fact that double jump is a pretty generic move to give Amy, I feel like even the bubble shield bounce would have suited Amy better due to her downward slam in previous games, and simply being a more innovative move to master and take advantage of. Just find some sort of move that makes use of Amy's hammer as is compelling to master and exploit through level design.

I feel like spin dash would be too neccessary to abolish completely (I came to that same problem with my hacks) though they could make it an upward dash to give her some differences and neccessitate her hammer attacks more (which I don't think should be a Drop Dash reskin if that turns out to be true, let Sonic keep SOME trump card to himself).

 

This is why I changed my mind when writing my comment proposing a middle ground with the Advance moveset. Amy needs to have some kind of action to gain speed from a standstill so we don’t have newbies getting stuck on a big hill like in Green Hill Act 2. I wanted to have down + jump do the hammer jump, but it’d need to be the big step or a spindash instead. There isn’t a great way to make Amy unique in the one button gameplay. I still think jumps should be non-spinning and only activate the hammer flip when pressed again though.

 

To those who think Origins was bad, wait til you meet these guys

 

Tbh part of the problem with just reusing Amy’s Advance 1 set or something like that is if part of why Sega’s including her with the core crew is to give girls someone to play as, including her as a Hard Mode type of character is sort of a slap in the face to that idea. With how delicately her character has been handled lately, it wouldn’t surprise me if that was part of the calculus.

 

I think the issue is that they almost seem to be going the opposite extreme, some don't want her the 'Hard Mode' perhaps but making her just a boosted up version of Sonic feels like a bland choice and is also just kinda shifting the unfairness onto fans who wanna play as the blue boy.

I don't get this current obsession media has currently with every female having to be an upgraded clone of the male lead. I'm sure girl gamers also appreciate individuality. No cool unique ability and stats for them to play around with like Tails and Knuckles mains get, just gotta focus all attention on one upping those smelly boys. :P

 

To be fair, I’ll admit I’m at a loss at what ability I’d give Amy without straying from the “one action button” rule, which is the major problem here. But then again, they came up with something cool for Ray (Mighty felt pretty derivative by comparison).

Sonic’s advantage over the other two (now three!) remains the use of the elemental shields and the Drop Dash/Insta-Shield, but I mean… let’s be real, Sonic being (seemingly) the worst one to play as has always been kind of the joke. He’s still my go-to but “why would you pick Sonic over Tails or Knuckles?” was definitely a sentiment among friends/siblings when we played the games as kids.

 

Lmfao the GTA Trilogy was easily one of the worst day 1 gaming purchases I've ever made. I really wanted to experience the classics on a Nintendo system for the first time and they just... look and play like absolute dogshit. Origins' issues at least are primarily UI and QOL things.

 

Sonic is special because he's Sonic. He gets the insta-shield, or the drop-dash, or the shields, which absolutely have their uses, but the sentiment that other characters need to be made weaker for Sonic to shine is what got us the terrible other characters in Sonic 06. It saddens me to learn that so many fans have forgotten that games' lessons, though thankfully the devs haven't yet. That's why Amy is great in Project 06 and Silver still sucks. One was made to fit into the idiom of Sonic's gameplay, the other stagnated with the bad ideas from the original. That's why Amy frequently missed the bus compared to Tails and Knuckles, she made a bad first impression by being a downgrade instead of an upgrade or even a sidegrade.

 

I think the deal is however that the way Tails and Knuckles have trump cards over Sonic are things that DEVIATE them from Sonic. Flying and gliding/climbing completely change how you play as them, turning it more into a slower explorational thing. It's why Drop Dash works for Sonic's individual move since it's a counter to that, it's a move to focuses specifically on momentum and going faster across the main route, thus not only balances Sonic back to equal footing but does so in a way that makes them feel EVEN MORE individual from each other.

It's why Amy simply having benefits that are juiced up versions of everything Sonic has feels disappointing, since not only do they make Sonic feel more COMPLETELY redundant in a cheaper way than Tails and Knuckles, but it also means she fails to really alter the game effectively, there's little novelty to playing all these games as her besides the sprite work. She's basically another 'easy mode' of Sonic's gameplay, while Tails before was at least an 'easy mode' with a very unique twist.

I think it's why Cream's gameplay felt relatively lacking too, she was just Tails but with an unintuitive 'press button to win' move added on. She's basically just designed if you wanna play as Tails 'but can't even be arsed for that'. I'd choose Sonic and Tails over Amy and Cream simply because they're the same gameplay but forced to be more intuitive.

 

You don't think a double-jump changes how you're encouraged to play?

 

Yes, but in a very bare bones way. There were TONS of other directions they could have taken Amy, even if they wanted her core moveset to otherwise be homogenised with the others.

 

And? What is so special about those nebulous "tons of other directions" that a double jump is such a problem? I just don't get it.

 

What actually are these "tons of other directions" by the way? I keep seeing reference to how much better she could be and I don't think I've seen any real examples besides making her gameplay suck by taking the spin away.

 

Those collections were whored out to fledgling studios who mostly dabbled with mobile titles. In Silent Hill HD Collection's case, they were given unfinished beta code.

Sega had Sonic Team do most of the work on Origins, an in-house legacy development studio, so I'm a little confused at your comparison here. Sega looks far worse here imo and Sonic Team looks seriously incompetent.

 

Don't see why Psi has to ideas guy to justify their point. That's not their problem to solve. double jump and a bigger hit box is a basic bitch move compared to what everyone else gets. Psi isn't even saying Advance 1 her either so I don't kniw where that no spin comment is coming from. Just give her something actually cool and unique.
Sonic Galactic had their own interesting take on an Amy gameplay incorporating her hammer.
https://xcancel.com/Sonic_Galactic/status/1667543390328885249

 

It's not their problem to solve because it's not a real problem at all. Even your example is basically just a weaker cross between Sonic and Knuckles. There's always going to be redundancy because there's a necessarily limited number of actions you can use to propel a character in 2D space. There's nothing more or less unique about having a ground hammer attack versus having...I guess a different kind of the same jump.

 

In fairness, I do think her moveset here could be improved. My basic idea is that instead of an actual double jump, this move should be more like a direct copy of the instashield, since that's what they're already doing for the most part. Single jump is normal with no hammer, double tap jump uses hammer to extend hit radius and deflect projectiles. Then, if you really want her to have something more than that, she could still have some kind of hammer-jump by pressing UP+Jump while standing or running. That way it won't interfere with spin combos.

But there isn't anything terribly wrong with what they've done.

 

Nah, i won't lower my standards. Specially to those of Live-service Rockstar and Only Metal Gear Era Konami. Thanks but no Thanks.