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Sonic Origins Collection - General Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, May 27, 2021.

  1. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    But the originals had roll lock too, no? I think it’s more noticeable in origins because of how poorly it works with drop dashing. Plus you can disable the roll lock via in game codes

    And I’d still say they’re the definitive versions. Both versions have their bugs and quirks. Sonic 1 spike bug for example, or Sonic 2’s hill top crash (or I forgot the real big bug, post sign post super softlock). It’s just a matter of which ones you think make the experience worse.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2022
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  2. Laura

    Laura

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    Yeah I get it. They definitely aren't bad. But I think people used to worship them in a way which was maybe a tad over the top!
     
  3. charcoal

    charcoal

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    I'm indifferent to the difference with Sonic 1 original and Sonic 1 mobile. The widescreen really doesn't make as much of an impact in a more slow paced game like Sonic 1, and the Spindash isn't very useful there either. The only real thing I care about with Sonic 1 is the moderately worse special stages, but honestly both versions of the game are fine for me. I don't have an affinity for one or the other.

    I think widescreen is enough of a game changer for mobile Sonic 2 for it to still be the definitive edition, though. Sonic 2's later levels throw dumb shit at you that you have no chance of seeing all the time so the widescreen really improves the experience. That and the special stages being much much more tolerable means I don't go back to original Sonic 2 every often if I have the option to play a decomp or Origins.

    (I would bring up Sonic CD but I don't like that game very much in the first place so I am also indifferent. I'm sure people who do like the game may have more strong opinions on it, but I've got nothing.)

    I do have to agree with @Laura that the worship for them is a bit over the top sometimes. They are really cool and impressive ports of the original games, but you really aren't missing out on that much by choosing to play the originals, and vice versa. It's not like Sonic Adventure where the game legitimately does become significantly worse depending on the version you play.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2022
  4. BlueSkiesAM2

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    Well even if they were, with the decomps available now they definitely aren’t any longer. I’d say at the time of their release, they were the best experience possible though.

    Nowadays, the tweaks and additions possible in Sonic 1 Forever and Sonic 2 Absolute are untouchable unless Sega goes wacky and includes everything in those versions, plus a new CD quality soundtrack by Masa, hires Yasuhara himself back to redesign and implement cut levels and concepts, and finally redesigns all the assets in each game so they play smoothly as one experience.

    So yeah… S1F and S2A will not be topped until some radically new tech comes out that makes Retro Engine obsolete.

    Edit: I originally said “CD soundtrack by Masa” but I meant “CD-quality.” I don’t want people thinking I want a new OST for Sonic CD lol.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2022
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  5. Blue Spikeball

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    The mobile ports really nice thanks to all the additions, but yeah I find they have plenty of issues that fans tend to overlook. Other ports/remasters like SADX, SA2B or SCU don't get such a free pass from them.

    Also, am I the only one who thinks the S2 remaster's Hidden Palace has some weird level design that feels really out of place? Once you get past the novelty of playing an HPZ recreation in an official S2 version, you have a level that doesn't mesh with the rest of the game IMO.
     
  6. Dark Sonic

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    Ok that’s fair at least I mean they’re def not perfect. But it’s nice playing as Tails and Knuckles in Sonic 1
     
  7. jubbalub

    jubbalub

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    Sonic Mania: The Misfits Pack, The Binding of Isaac: Deliverance
    People worshipped the ports because they came right after the sorry excuse of a classic Sonic game that was Sonic 4. People are only now realizing that the remasters have quirks of their own.
     
  8. BlueSkiesAM2

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    They were the only official 16:9 release, they were a stable frame rate, they incorporated much better implementations of the special stages, added new level segments and a cut stage, were headed up by two well-known fan creators, etc.

    There are a lot of reasons to give the ports major props besides coming after 4.
     
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  9. jubbalub

    jubbalub

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    Sonic Mania: The Misfits Pack, The Binding of Isaac: Deliverance
    Don't take that as me saying that's the only reason people like them. They are without a doubt the best way to play the classic games. It's just that a major part of their popularity is in part due to Sonic 4 being so dissapointing.
     
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  10. RetroJordan91

    RetroJordan91

    The REAL Blue Sphere Guy Member
    I don’t remember where I first discussed this point, but I will mention it here as well to get a good discussion going:

    To call Forever, Absolute, AIR, and Restored as the definitive versions of the 2D games over the vanilla Taxman/Stealth versions is unfair because of the difference in scope and permissible customization.

    Not to discredit the work done by Team Forever, Eukaryot, and PimpUigi, because there most certainly are features they added that make each experience so much better, but those fan versions are not held back by strict deadlines and visions already established by the original Sonic Team and SEGA; hence why there’s so many customizable features and extras in each game that SEGA would likely never implement or approve themselves.

    Also add in the fact that the casual player is not going to have easy access to those fan remakes due to the slightly complicated way of getting them running on PC. Mr. Casual will most likely prefer the easiest accessible option, which is Origins.

    And finally, these fan versions (except AIR) would not exist if not for the decompilation of the original Taxman/Stealth remasters so yeah, I have no problem calling Origins the definitive official way to play the classics

    So next time anyone says “Origins sucks” or “Just play Sonic Forever, Absolute, etc.. instead”, remember which ports first laid the foundation :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2022
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  11. SystemsReady

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    Yeah, like, when the mobile versions came out, the field of "the old games but better" fangames was extremely slim if not outright nonexistent. Honestly we probably wouldn't have any of these "improved original games" fan releases if 1 & 2 hadn't been trapped on mobile all this time. If they were on PC they would've instead had mods to change the things people didn't like, like how CD 2011's mod scene is.
     
  12. BlueSkiesAM2

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    This is a bit of a different discussion though. If I’m talking to a casual fan, 100% I’m recommending Origins. I don’t think the problems it has precludes it from being a satisfying experience. It’s just that for us nuts who spend time talking about it, those fan creations offer us the best options.

    Prior to Origins, the mobile ports and CD 2011 were the definitive ways to play for both casuals and the hardcore (forget AIR for a second) as they were the most accessible without severe compromises. Now, we have Origins for casuals and the decomps for the fans. The mobile ports are decidedly no longer definitive but they did provide the ground work for the next generation.

    I mean just look at my comment after the one you quoted. I gave a pretty good list of reasons why those releases were so groundbreaking for the fans.
     
  13. kyasarintsu

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    The new features in the mobile versions are... cute. I don't really find Tails and Knuckles's abilities fun so getting to use them in levels not designed for them is even less interesting. Widescreen is appreciated but it honestly doesn't feel like it does nearly as much as you'd think it would. Sonic 1's special stages feel worse but Sonic 2's absolutely feel much better—though it could stand to also have a better camera for inclines. Having new stages for multiplayer is good. The rest of the features just feel like little novelties: minor touches and flourishes, the very-rare new area, and all those little random things you can get by inserting passwords. It's stuff that I don't mind having added to a new game but I think that "definitive" feels like overselling them. And yeah, all the new little hitbox and physics issues are annoying.
     
  14. Battons

    Battons

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    I tend to prefer playing the games as vanilla as possible. The TaxStealth versions are basically that with some rounding around the edges to make them not as rough which is all I need. They also had the novelty old but new which was still pretty rare when they came out. They might not seem so glamorous now since they’ve been played to death by all of us but it was so refreshing to have easy to get, not shitty backbone emulation or GBA/DS ports, versions of these games.
     
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  15. TomGyroid

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    IDK, I'm still gonna wait on both hypothetical future patches and further development of the modding scene of Origins before casting my vote towards those fan projects. I'm not sure whether the decomps/AIR might be able to do some things over Origins (at least at the moment) because of how they're more alterable as decomps (or AIR's own engine thing) compared to mods of Origins, but it'd depend on what those benefits are. I also remember something about eventually getting Forever/Absolute/Restored's scripts decomps compatible with Origins, though I haven't heard much from that yet.
    [​IMG]
    Speaking of updates, I'm not sure if Christmas break is as important to Japanese ST development, but it's still kinda weird to see Origins tampered with right now, if not around Christmas itself. They've been doing more alterations than even the big S3&K cheat code update had. As discussed, it's best to keep expectations low. Though just maybe it could at least be a decent amount of bugfixes?
     
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  16. PicklePower

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    Is this assumption just based on a build number changing? If so, I don’t think you can equate “build number changes a lot” with “there are big changes”.

    I wouldn’t read into this much without having other information.
     
  17. HEDGESMFG

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    We're over 6 months past original release now. If we don't see a second patch of some kind within the next 3, I think our chances of getting any major additional quality of life improvement are pretty much done. Even Sonic Mania Plus took only about 11 months.

    And regardless of if you consider the fan patched versions as "definitive", it kind of misses the point as delisting the original ROMS still stripped the consumer of any real ability to easily and legally have the original versions, or even an easy way to mod Steam SCD.

    Arguably, there is no definitive version of the classics anymore. The original is legally inaccessible outside of original hardware. The AGES versions have their own oddball features. The fan remakes are great but hard to access and not at all on consoles. Origins has problems as quirks, and also needs a permanent price drop and the mod scene has stagnated lately on PC. Pick and choose your preference. This is sadly kind of what we're stuck with now.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2022
  18. Laura

    Laura

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    AGES Sonic 2 has by far the best CRT filter options.
     
  19. This is some crazy pretzel logic. Origins being based on a good version doesn't mean its faults don't make it worse.
     
  20. RetroJordan91

    RetroJordan91

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    I’m not defending the stupid decisions that SEGA made to rush Origins out for a meaningless anniversary (31st?? Really?) and of course there are still flaws that need to be addressed. But my post stems from the fact that I’ve seen so many people trash the collection simply because of its lack of features that the fan made versions have. That’s why I deemed that particular criticism to be unfair.

    There may never be a true definitive version of any of the 2D Sonic games due to the many different options we have, so of course one’s opinion will always be different. Like BlueSkies said, Origins is more for the casual gamer who wants easy accessibility, and the fan made versions are for the more hardcore Sonic fans. I fully support both sides of the spectrum. Although I understand that this kind of argument will always continue between others so I feel like the poor guy in the middle.

    Anyway tangent is over :V everyone is entitled to play whichever version he or she wants. Your definitive version of a game is how you choose to play it, whether it’s Origins, Mega Collection, 3 AIR, the Genesis cartridges on original hardware, etc.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2022