don't click here

Sonic Origins Collection - General Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, May 27, 2021.

  1. Ch1pper

    Ch1pper

    Fighting the Battle of Who Could Care Less Member
    745
    45
    28
    Life.
    I've actually gotten a lot of weird little quirks like that in 3K since using the patch on Switch. Just oddball, momentary sprite freakouts or physics landing me in a wall next to the path that I can thankfully jump/walk out of. Not game-breaking, but still a bit hair-raising from moment to moment.
     
  2. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    Even though they are releasing updates for the game, I'm still honestly frustrated they won't address the soundtrack situation. The November prototype tracks should have been patched in by now :/

    Carnival Night sounds broken in the build from which they sourced the songs.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2022
  3. JcFerggy

    JcFerggy

    Do you want to taco 'bout it? Member
    1,343
    49
    28
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    GoldenEye: Source, Other Stuff
    I'm not an audio person, but the November prototype tracks are slightly unfinished when compared to the final releases, so is there any obvious differences in their composition between the November prototype, Sonic and Knuckles PC collection (both midi and FM soundtracks), and the new Sonic Origins compositions?

    If so, I'd be interested in what a "finalized" genesis rendition would sound like.
     
  4. McAleeCh

    McAleeCh

    Oldbie
    1,267
    269
    63
    There's actually some evidence that the versions in Origins are likely just recordings taken from an earlier prototype than the one we have access to - chiefly that Carnival Night 1 and Launch Base 1 are actually coded in the same key as the Origins versions, but are transposed via a flag set in the code. Both Carnival Night acts also have stereo panning effects added and more complex instrumentation in the prototype, as there are sections which use different instruments to each other in the prototype but use the same instruments as each other in Origins. The prototype's Launch Base 1 also has some additional PSG channels that the Origins version lacks, suggesting they were added after the version the recordings were taken from. Origins' Icecap 1 is basically just the same as Act 2 but with a different drum track, whereas the prototype also changes the lead instrument to differentiate it further. Finally, in Origins Launch Base 2 has severe volume balancing issues between 0:30 and 0:45 where the backing instruments drown out the main melody, an issue fixed in the prototype version.

    However, the actual notation matches between the prototype and the recordings in Origins, whereas both Sonic & Knuckles Collection versions have differences including missing or simplified sections - another pointer that these likely originate from a genuine Mega Drive prototype rather than just using the Sonic & Knuckles Collection versions as a basis. It's likely the collection's FM and MIDI tracks were transcribed by hand, possibly from listening to the very same recordings which have ended up in Origins, as they sound a lot closer to these versions than the ones from our prototype in terms on tempo/key/instrumentation. I know there's a theory that one set may have been transcribed using the original demo tapes as reference instead, as it has more differences including some compositional differences in Hydrocity 1, but you'd need to ask someone more familiar with Sonic & Knuckles Collection than me to confirm which of the two sets of music that is.

    Launch Base 2 is still the most egregious to me due to the aforementioned volume balancing issues - Carnival Night sounds frustratingly crappy, but not actively broken in the same manner as that one.

    I've been somewhat railroaded by a house move, but did manage to get in contact with SEGA Europe to see if there was any way to feed something like this back to the developers. A general enquiries email was the best they could do for me, but they did confirm that once checked information would be forwarded to appropriate teams, even in the US and Japan offices, if deemed important. It doesn't seem to be publicly listed, so while not ideal it still seems the best available option for getting in contact digitally to try and flag up the issue. The address given was queries (a) sega.co.uk (with an @ substituted at the appropriate point).

    As mentioned, I've been unable to respond yet due to the move, but if anyone else wants to get in contact in the meantime I'd suggest the following:
    • Keep it polite (obviously) so that they're more likely to take the infornation seriously.
    • Don't assume anyone at SEGA has any foreknowledge regarding the prototype - as it was struck for a magazine preview and never returned, it may be that no equivalent copy exists in their own archives, which would explain why Origins and Sonic & Knuckles Collection use/are based on these earlier versions of the tracks
    • Clearly specify which tracks are affected - Carnival Night 1&2, Icecap 1 and Launch Base 1&2. Provide comparisons between the prototype and Origins tracks if possible
    • Be sure to flag up the tweet from Hidden Palace offering to send back the prototype EEPROMs for recording
    It may be long shot, but short of someone managing to dig up better contact details in the US or Japan I think this is the best avenue of digital contact that we have presently to try to make SEGA aware of the issue.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  5. RetroJordan91

    RetroJordan91

    The REAL Blue Sphere Guy Member
    Could it be that they simply don’t have the 11/3 prototype in their archives? Hence why they based the Origins renditions on an earlier prototype?

    I mean it’s not like the Origins versions are trash, but it would be a shame if Hidden Palace’s offer goes completely ignored (and unfortunately it might) because of stubbornness.
     
  6. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

    Member
    14,256
    1,333
    93
    Working on my art!
    Sega? Stubborn?

    Nooo that's not the Sega I know, not at all.
     
  7. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    The Nov. proto renditions should be almost final for CNz 1 and 2. They even panned the DAC claps. That's a finishing touch.
    Actually the only thing unfinished in CNz in the Nov. proto is that an instrument doesn't reset properly after the loop, other than that they are IMO good to go.

    They are trash, especially on Carnival Night. There's a completely off-key bell in CNz2 that is actually one of the PSG channels at a wrong pitch being played by an FM instrument. It's literally broken.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2022
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  8. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

    Member
    14,256
    1,333
    93
    Working on my art!
    Ya I'm not a huge music person but even I can tell somethings wrong with CNZ 1, the wrong instrument leads you can barely hear the main melody.
     
  9. Kyro

    Kyro

    Member
    123
    52
    28
    Oh is it actually fucked? I honestly did have trouble with them and they felt different than i remembered but I chalked that up to just me misremembering
     
  10. Davether

    Davether

    Member
    16
    3
    3
    Has anyone been able to figure out if the "Change Tails to Miles" cheat code is accessible in Origins' Sonic 1 and 2?

    In the mobile ports, tapping "A, G, E, S" in that sequence during the SEGA logo would trigger the Miles name change (and also access a hidden credits screen in Sonic 1 only). Since there is no touchscreen for this collection, I was wondering if these cheat codes still exist in some capacity.

    There's a Miles cheat code that works in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, so its strange they'd neglect it for the other games in the collection.
     
  11. TomGyroid

    TomGyroid

    Member
    31
    11
    8
    Seems that this site's cheat pages for the original mobile remasters don't mention any paired controller input cheat codes for that feature like level select has, so they might've been locked to touch screen input like a feature to speed up the score tallies (though I'm not sure that is 100% a thing?). It'd be a shame for Origins to have slightly more removed content that was already present in the original remasters, especially when it'd actually be consistent with the new S3&K remaster for once (not Sonic CD though I think, which is another sign of it being the earliest of these remasters. Wish it was properly brought up to speed in Origins...)
    Another weird thing I just learnt is that S2's level select wouldn't let you access Hidden Palace Zone until you've found it in-game, or through Proto Palace Zone. Origins STILL doesn't let you access it even if you've found it already, but instead lets it take the always-working cheat code spot of Proto Palace Zone, this removing that level in the process. Weird direction to take, maybe they didn't know how to remove PPZ's cheat code from the game or something.
     
  12. _Sidle

    _Sidle

    Member
    240
    190
    43
    I know Mania has touch screen support for menus on Switch and mouse support on PC, so maybe it's still there as it was in 2013? (Still locked out on other platforms, I'd imagine.)

    Speed-up score tallies is a Mania thing (and if I'm not mistaken, only introduced via an update). CD/1/2 never had it.
     
  13. corneliab

    corneliab

    Isn't it about time you played some VIDEOGAMES? Member
    1,583
    137
    43
    Zero Mortals
    My only issue with the special stage physics in this version of Sonic 1 is that I can't just do nothing in the first special stage and eventually be dropped into the emerald room. I always thought that was an amusing little strat.

    Other than that, they feel fine to me. Worth the engine differences for the smooth rotation.
     
  14. Davether

    Davether

    Member
    16
    3
    3
    I own the Switch version, so I just tried inputting the code via handheld mode's touchscreen; no dice. I noticed that a lot of the new S3&K cheats were discovered by datamining Origins, has anyone checked for any missing/new cheat codes in 1,2 and CD within the datamine?

    In other news, I discovered that there is a way to access this Stage Select screen in Origins Sonic 1. If you use debug mode and spawn a goal sign/animal capsule in the Final Zone, it will direct you to the Stage Select. It doesn't really serve a purpose using this method, but at least we know it exists in the game somewhere, I guess?

    Unfortunately this method won't work on Sonic 2; using debug mode to clear Death Egg Zone early will just bring you to Hidden Palace Zone (as it is the next stage in the level list), and clearing Hidden Palace Zone will return you all the way back to Oil Ocean Zone, creating an endless loop.

    It seems like the dev team created their own save file system for 1,2, and CD instead of repurposing the save file system used in their mobile versions; which is pretty redundant if you ask me.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  15. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

    Member
    2,292
    455
    63
    Really if S1 at least has the stage select system I don't get why not to use it, at least for Anniversary Mode which doesn't have authenticity gatekeeping it (not like it stops loads of other stuff in Classic Mode though). It at least makes the CLEAR! save files worth KEEPING and the new system actually reasonably practical.
     
  16. Ashura96

    Ashura96

    HEROIC VERSE Oldbie
    Happy to see that significant progress has been made with the recent patch. Hopefully everything else will be ironed out soon enough. Also yes, some of those new Sonic 3 cheats should just be menu toggles.
     
  17. LockOnTommy11

    LockOnTommy11

    Member
    2,611
    132
    43
    UK
  18. nineko

    nineko

    I am the Holy Cat Tech Member
    6,173
    418
    63
    italy
    Yes, they did.
     
  19. big smile

    big smile

    Oldbie
    924
    82
    28
    It’s too bad the Sonic 2 all emerald cheat isn’t persistent. It seems to reset every time you go to the title scene which means you can’t use it in 2P VS.

    (In the original you could play “Super Sonic tag”, where the second player could use the teleport to steal the Super Sonic powers, but that isn’t possible in Origins).

    Also, the code to access Sonic 2’s Hidden Palace via the level select didn’t work for me on Switch. I was only able to access it via level select once I beat a save file with Sonic (even clearing a save file with Knuckles & Tails didn’t work).
     
  20. corneliab

    corneliab

    Isn't it about time you played some VIDEOGAMES? Member
    1,583
    137
    43
    Zero Mortals
    Got around to trying out the Super flight, super peel-out, and disable Super music codes all at once, and combined with drop dash, they make for one hell of a fun experience. These features are all in existing hacks and mods sure, but they are still fantastic to have here. Together they really elevate the experience over what it was pre-patch. I will say though that the peel-out code interacts with Super/Hyper forms somewhat strangely: their high speed/peel out state becomes this sort of buggy roll. Trying to charge the peel-out when Super/Hyper will cause your character to curl into a ball, and depending on the terrain you'll have to mash the input or they'll just fall out of the charge. And since it makes you roll, your speed gets messed up in a way that doesn't happen with the standard peel-out, particularly on level ground.

    Awhile back I mentioned that the Sandopolis 1 boss in Origins flies further if you attack it at a high speed. Well, if you're hovering in midair and you hit it with the ring-consuming dash from the code, it goes flying. The boss gets taken down in just two hits, which is pretty damn cool lol.

    edit: fixed a small inaccuracy and rephrased some things
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2022
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List