don't click here

Sonic Origins Collection - General Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, May 27, 2021.

  1. charcoal

    charcoal

    Member
    614
    455
    63
    If we get a couple bugfixes to fix the major things, I'd consider these the definitive versions. Quality of life improvements are everywhere already, and the dropdash alone adds endless possibility.
    Ha, get it, guys? I did the funny.


    i'll see myself out.
     
  2. RikohZX

    RikohZX

    Member
    871
    217
    43
    Unless people figure out how to rip the Mighty/Ray code from Mania to insert into the giant gaps here, I don't think we're getting extra character slots and things like the Triple Trouble item/enemy effects or so forth any time soon. But when it comes down to it, we're also working with Retro Engine; even before decompilation stuff was a thing people were more readily able to modify and create level content, whereas with AIR you're effectively working with souped up Genesis code and assets put in a more convenient form factor.

    People are already importing Mania levels and assets wholesale, only lacking enemies and objects by code logic. So we can already do a lot of what Mania modding achieved besides code-focused scripting, and that is almost inevitable.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2022
  3. foXcollr

    foXcollr

    Previously 'Hanging Waters' Member
    596
    509
    93
    US
    proud of u
     
  4. Snowbound

    Snowbound

    Member
    467
    316
    63
    The mobile Sonic 1 and 2 (without the bugs caused by the Sega Forever updates) and Steam Sonic CD (w/ mods) were my definitive versions.
     
  5. Turbohog

    Turbohog

    Member
    856
    88
    28
    I really just can't get over the overly sensitive collision. Does anyone more knowledgeable than me know why it is apparently so hard to perfectly replicate the collision in the Genesis games? I imagine fixing this via modding would require a hefty overhaul of the object collision code.
     
  6. Zephyr

    Zephyr

    Member
    3,156
    213
    43
    US
    I'm not sure I'd consider these the 'definitive' versions, even if all of the bugs were fixed.

    If I had to choose between Genesis roms and the remakes as the only versions I was ever able to play again, I'd go with the roms in a heartbeat. I'd be distraught if the remakes were the only versions of the games I was ever able to play again.* This is less for "purist" reasons, and more because, as I'm discovering playing the remakes for the first time via the Story Mode, the Retro Engine changes the collision in so many places (and tons of other small things) that my decades' worth of muscle memory is frequently being thrown off. For exactly this reason, the absence of the actual original versions is a huge bummer. And, likewise, the delisting of the original versions is that much shittier. Glad I have them all on original hardware, Mega Collection, XBLA, and Steam already.

    But I'm still glad this collection exists and that I have it to play. The remakes are indisputably really cool versions to have, with widescreen, infinite lives, Tails and Knuckles in Sonic 1, etc. With all of these QOL improvements, this is definitely the most accessible these games have ever been, and that's good. Thanks to the coins, for instance, I've completed all of CD's and 2's Special Stages for the first time in my life!

    *: Exception to this being CD. I only started really getting CD when I played the remake, so that's what I'm more used to.
     
  7. RikohZX

    RikohZX

    Member
    871
    217
    43
    The best way I see it is that the Genesis games had some pretty crappy collision. Often Sonic could partly phase through walls if something tried to push him into one, and the reason you could do those massive zip skips across levels was entirely by tricking the game into pushing you into what it "considered" was geometry and it trying to push you out somewhere else. And it could often crush you too if I remember right. Sonic Team of the 90's really tried but it was just a whole lotta jank.

    Retro Engine seems to crush much more readily because it's actually better collision. It probably detects when these things shouldn't be intersecting, and instead of playing fast and loose like the Genesis, it just decides you've been crushed. So technically it all is working as intended by the remaster's logic, but these games were inherently designed to not work as this sort of intended.

    At least that's my guess off of the past decade of piecing logic together.
     
    • Like Like x 11
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  8. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

    The Voice Maestro Member
    431
    366
    63
    Cyber City
    Mega Man Zero: The Definitive Dub
    Can someone answer this? Because I feel like an idiot right now.
    [​IMG]
    What is this place in the ending cutscene? It's not Stardust Speedway, and it can't be Studiopolis either. Is it Station Square? If they just wanted to throw together a cute little cinematic for the ending, why this place and not an established "Classic" location? Are they hinting at a possible new Sonic 4?
     
  9. astroblema

    astroblema

    my name means "star wound" Member
    214
    170
    43
    Chile
    It's a secret!
    Holy fuck I fucking wish
     
  10. KingOfBunnies

    KingOfBunnies

    Member
    1,021
    140
    43
    Things can't just be fun for the sake of fun with you people, can it? Why can't it just been a fun location they decided to draw and not a reference?
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  11. JaxTH

    JaxTH

    Pudding Deity Oldbie
    9,862
    375
    63
    Los Angeles
    Jack shit.
    I saw it as the OVA place and nothing more.
     
  12. astroblema

    astroblema

    my name means "star wound" Member
    214
    170
    43
    Chile
    It's a secret!
    I hope we see the catgirl in Sonic Mania 2 then.
     
  13. Linkabel

    Linkabel

    Member
    I just think it's a random city, but it can be Starlight/Spring Yard Zone or the city we see in Casino Night.

    Or of the many cities we see in the Screen art.
     
  14. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

    The Voice Maestro Member
    431
    366
    63
    Cyber City
    Mega Man Zero: The Definitive Dub
    Because on the insane off-chance I happen to be right, I can laugh all the way to the bank.
    Interesting theory. Except that can't be it either, since it's clearly an active city that isn't in ruins and has running electricity.
     
  15. Turbohog

    Turbohog

    Member
    856
    88
    28
    That's a good explanation, thanks. Not sure why I couldn't piece it together myself. Still, I wish they would've added some special collision logic for the objects that frequently crush the player unfairly. It can obviously be done, but it'd probably be a bit of a pain to implement.
     
  16. BlueSkiesAM2

    BlueSkiesAM2

    Member
    498
    243
    43
    Denmark
    If you play Sonic 1 with the elemental shields, you can still see them when you’re behind the wall in Marble Zone’s hidden passages (or at least the thunder shield). I can’t remember for sure, but I don’t think this was the case on the iOS version.

    It’s quite nice looking.

    On the Station Square part, I thought they could have done a nice little segue into Adventure by having Eggman discovering the stone tablets that describe Chaos in Sonic 3’s ending. Of course, that would imply Sonic Adventure directly follows 3&K which definitely isn’t the case anymore. So I wouldn’t necessarily want it, but it’d have been pretty neat.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2022
  17. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

    Member
    14,221
    1,313
    93
    Working on my art!
    Well the little Mania jingle at the end of course came with the "hey maybe Mania 2" feelings but it's prob nothing more than a cute video... that shows Amy doing things despite not doing anything back then.

    Unrelated but one complaint with the dioramas. Really? No Knuckles or Amy? You go out of your way to make models for the flickies from 3D Blast but not the two mains that are prominently featured in the advertising?
     
  18. ELS

    ELS

    Member
    Video at the very end is really random and it's nicely done and all but it feels like it has next to nothing to do with the game I just finished playing.
     
  19. kyasarintsu

    kyasarintsu

    Member
    294
    110
    43
    Yes, actually. I've played these games a lot and I'd definitely consider a version with more content, additional features, and mitigated frustration to be definitive editions. Why would I not have considered calling these the definitive versions when they had a reliable team working on them? I couldn't really have predicted just how janky and rushed this would actually turn out.
     
  20. So I was messing around in S3K and found some things:
    - The hole in the floor method to access the second Special Stage Ring in HCZ1 works again.
    - It is still possible to fight the Sonic route bosses as Knuckles in LBZ2, using the exact same method as the original game. Doing this shows that the Ball Shooter has been updated to use Eggrobo, and there is now a version of the Eggman Escape sprites for Eggrobo.
    - You can place springs and other assorted objects in DDZ. Pressing a capsule button just brings you back to the title screen.
    - LBZ uses its original animal set from Sonic 3 for the most part - the only time when it doesn't is when animals are released from the capsule in Knuckles' LBZ2, in which case the S3K animal set is used instead.
    - The DEZ2 Boss's Eggman is updated to be Eggrobo as Knuckles, and is directly tied to the player's own X-Position.
    - You can attempt to place place Gumballs in the Gumball Bonus Stage. Including the S-Ball. Placing them crashes the game, at least on v1.1.0 on the Switch.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2022
    • Like Like x 4
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • List