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Sonic Origins Collection - General Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, May 27, 2021.

  1. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

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    It's more the principle of the matter that upsets people. The music, on its own, in a vacuum, is not enough to decry the entire product of Origins. Modders are going to fix these issues day one, and even if they don't, fans have the Decomps and A.I.R. to fall back on which are going to be superior versions anyway. And most people who play this, normies, are going to like the music perfectly fine.

    Rather, it's the sheer audacity, and idiocy, of how SEGA has handled this collection that makes people uncomfortable with giving them their money. Between ignoring and sweeping the music issue under the rug, lying about how involved Jun was in the production of it, using inferior versions of FM sound sources they ought to have in their archives, locking basic functions like widescreen behind the Anniversary mode like this is fucking Sonic 1 GBA, failing to include new Sonic 2 development materials that we KNOW they have in the museum (on top of lying that what was included were "never-before-seen" materials), the whole Denuvo thing, and dangling the prospect of further Classic games over our heads "if it's successful" as if Generations and Mania weren't enough, I certainly am not happy with SEGA's behavior.

    EDIT: Also the price. Seriously, what the fuck?
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2022
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  2. Fadaway

    Fadaway

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    It is always acceptable to sometimes take the bad with the good. Old Siberian proverb. Don't sweat it.

    I am just happy this is retro engine in the first place and we're getting Hidden Palace Zone! Y'know? Not bad at all. Tyson Hesse animations! All of the games and Sonic 3 & Knuckles in one complete package. That is a landslide. It isn't bare bones like the Mario 3D Collection game. This is a metric fuck tonne of fan service. Do you realise how difficult and time consuming animation is??! All music is good. The legalities behind it warrant these changes. In the end, why care so much when you can play and enjoy the motherfuckers? To be quite honest, I admire the fact they blistered this kind of work into a collection and even got Jen Senoue, an original composer on the original game, into the project. That is monumental in and of itself and of the music isn't to your liking, then level up.
     
  3. Sparks

    Sparks

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    I think they would've saved time, money, and avoided criticism if they had just put the prototype versions of the songs in the game and called it a day.

    I'm sorry, that Super Sonic theme is something else. Good Lord.

    I respect Senoue, his talent, and works over the years, but this is clear evidence SEGA should have gotten someone else for the job who understood the stakes of the assignment better. I don't know the circumstances to how he ended up composing these songs, but it was a complete swing and miss. I'm just baffled someone at SEGA, playtesters, whatever the process is internally, listened to these and gave them the thumbs up. At the -least-, these songs needed to be in the oven a lot longer.

    There's some discussions that the sound is a bit distorted in videos, and I've thought about this notion for a few hours, but... I honestly don't expect it to truly make much of a difference; the flaws here are fundamental. I'll see for sure and give final judgement when I play it on the Switch with my sister.

    That said, I anticipate modders will be quick to jump on this, so it's not like it'll jade me from purchasing the game on PC at some point.
     
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  4. corneliab

    corneliab

    Isn't it about time you played some VIDEOGAMES? Member
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    It's really not that weird or even wrong that some people are perceiving these bad music tracks as something that is spoiling the larger game for them. They are bad, they're plopped right into something that is especially good, and the dissonance is going to very noticeable for whole zones or longer. I don't really blame people for not wanting to put up with that, especially knowing that there isn't really any good reason why things ended up this way.
     
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  5. Fadaway

    Fadaway

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    Sonic music can be anything. You aren't the judge of what could pass. I loved the beta music as much as the cartridge music. The midi files did it injustice but this isn't that. This is a re-composition from a wiser and more skilled Jen Senoue,. Do not fret. If you think it sucks now, wait ten years and tell me your opinion.
     
  6. Josh Cristan

    Josh Cristan

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    I could've lived with them not being able to resolve the rights issue, IF they'd actually given a shit and decided "look, let's get Tee or Yuzo in to compose new tracks for these levels that blow the originals and the proto tracks out of the water".
     
  7. KingOfBunnies

    KingOfBunnies

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    I think legal issues with a deceased person's estate is perfectly reasonable.
     
  8. corneliab

    corneliab

    Isn't it about time you played some VIDEOGAMES? Member
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    I'm talking about the quality of Origins' proto tracks and the new super theme.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2022
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  9. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    I think it’s interesting how many people suddenly liked the Sonic & Knuckles Collection tracks when they found out they were prototype tracks, then latched on to the (admittedly better-sounding) incomplete versions and now see them as the “originals.”
     
  10. Josh Cristan

    Josh Cristan

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    Fuck the legal issues, the tracks they replaced the originals with didn't need to be utter shite did they? That's the real issue.
     
  11. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

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    Sadly, I think you may seriously overestimate how many people even agree or understand what GEN/MD Sonic music should sound like. I've heard more than enough bad youtube 16 bit remixes over the years to testify to that.

    I was hoping Jun's musician ears would help him simply picked what sounded good, but either he didn't put any real effort in, didn't work on these tracks, or himself somehow doesn't understand the FM synths (which the super theme may indeed point towards).

    Then again, I'm wondering how many people not on this forum even can nail down the correct synths to use in S3&K. I feel like Stealth should've known better given how good the genesis megamix themes were, but it seems to have been out of the hands of him and his team, which is a shame. Even Tee Lopes doesn't do genesis mixes, typically.

    They should've just used the beta mixes, but I guess they wanted to match the last PC "official" collection.

    Also, throwing out the whole collection for 4-6 songs is still silly, IMHO. Even if you prefer AIR, origins will be a better base to mod with eventually, especially since S3 Steam is discontinued now.

    Just wait for the discounts if you're really that frustrated. This game will likely be half priced in 6 months before the holidays.
     
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  12. I believe Euka mentioned possibly making Sonic Origins an alternative key to 3 AIR, so...
     
  13. Devon

    Devon

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    I'm conflicted.

    On one hand, a very close friend of mine that I've known since we first started out on SSRG back in 2013 helped work on the S3K port, and I wanna support them. On the other hand, I don't wanna really support Sega's meddling around with the pricing plans, DRM, and some of other the weird choices that's been discussed here.

    Although, if what Stealth has said about not being paid for the sales generated from Mania is anything to go by (contract work and all) when he cancelled the Vertebreaker Kickstarter a few years ago, then it's probably likely that I wouldn't even be supporting my friend by purchasing Origins anyways. That, I can't say I'm certain on, but it's a thought.

    It's clear that a lot of work went into this whole thing, and I'm happy that my friend got such an opportunity at all, but I dunno. This is tricky for me.
     
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  14. G Spindash

    G Spindash

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    Sonic 3 & Knuckles Remastered Soundtrack
     
  15. LordOfSquad

    LordOfSquad

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    making cool music no one gives a shit about
    Imagine being Stealth and having to be all like "damn, Jun Senoue, your musics fuckin' fine, all retro with your tight synths and horrific off-pitch Sonic 1 drums. I would totally listen to you, both my fursona and the real me." when all he really wants to do is re-hire Tee Lopes. Like seriously imagine having to be Stealth and sit in that chair while Jun Senoue flaunts his obvious lack of knowledge of the YM2612 at you, his favorable position at SEGA barely concealing his inability to match the original sound, and just sit there, take after take, hour after hour, while he "perfected" that song. Not only having to tolerate his monstrous fucking cat noises but his haughty attitude as everyone on the dev team tells him he's STILL GOT IT and DAMN, JUN SENOUE SOUNDS LIKE THAT?? because they're not the ones who have to sit there and listen to him contort the Sonic & Knuckles theme into types of circus music you didn't even know existed before that day. You've been playing and creating nothing but a healthy diet of classic Sonic for your ENTIRE CAREER coming straight out of the boonies in Riverside, California. You've never even heard anything this fucking disgusting before, and now you swear you can taste the sweat that's breaking out on his rippled forehead as he furrows it from playing his keyboard so hard, smugly assured that you are enjoying the opportunity to get paid to sit there and revel in his "performance (for that is what he calls it)", the performance he worked so hard for with the SEGA Sound Team in the previous months. And then Iizuka calls for another take, and you know you could kill every single person in this room before SEGA security could put you down, but you sit there and endure, because you're fucking Stealth. You're not going to lose your chance at developing Sonic 5 over this. Just bear it. Hide your face and bear it.

    + - if anyone takes this post at face value i will never forgive you  
     
  16. Legal issues that ultimately stem from SEGA not setting up the music licensing/purchasing agreement properly. I don't give them a pass for this, personally.
     
  17. pkderbar

    pkderbar

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    It can't be the Death Egg launching at full power, since he doesn't have the power to get it into space, hence the Master Emerald in S3K.
     
  18. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    Devs don’t generally see a dime of their game’s actual sales, though some companies give a bonus if the game does well. I’m sure your friend would like you to play the game he worked on though.
     
  19. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    I asked him about it, since it'd be nice if it were possible and if S1/CD/2 could get similar treatment.
    I think he said first one gotta check out about Denuvo and if the game is mod-friendly at all.
     
  20. Fadaway

    Fadaway

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    Disagree entirely. I can enjoy them. I am not OCd or a perfectionist; I just like playing a good video game.