Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, May 27, 2021.
Only a half day of work for me so I'll take it.
Stealth said that the tracks will be based off the prototype tracks, soooo
Now that you mention it, I have to setup something to be able to record before playing, though I'm not sure if recording gameplays will be asking too much to a computer that was already mid-low tier when I got it 7 or 8 years ago.
Different question that I wanted to say a while ago but I think I didn't in regards to the infamous coins. This is speculation from my part in some key aspects, but I don't think they're really that different from lives in the sense that replacing them goes against traditional gameplay. Let's see:
- Traditional stuff that gives you lives gives you coins instead, so you get 1 coin from a what used to be a 1up monitor, and get three coins from what would be a continue.
- You can spend a coin in retrying a special stage, much like you could spend an extra live in the fangame Sonic Time Twisted for the same purpose.
- Coins replace lives on the HUD, and the wallet is shared between games, something that makes special sense in story mode if what I'm thinking is right.
- Of course, you can also spend coins in unlocking stuff, but you also get extra coins for completing stuff like missions, much like in some games where sometimes 1-ups replace chaos emeralds as the reward of a special stage.
I don't know what you may be thinking, but, as I see it, if, by any chance, you lose a coin every time you'd usually lose a life, even if this time these work more like those tails tokens of Colours Ultimate, I'd say coins aren't a real replacement of the lives, but their super form. You could, for example, abuse the easiness of getting extra lives in S3K and unlock the whole coin museum, fully restock the counter and go to story mode with 999 coins to beat every special stage even if that takes hundreds of tries to beat them and still have enough retries for the most terrifying moments like beating Labyrinth boss or S2 Death Egg.
Now you can add these to the list of proto Ice Cap remixes :P
As far as I’m aware
We don’t know
No one outside Sega and the composers know
i doubt anyone ourside those two groups will ever know
to pretend to know otherwise at this point is to spread boldfaced lies
The only thing that is certain anymore is that “legal issues exist and the music has to be replaced over them” nothing more
Where can I listen to these FM tapes?
My tired arse thought this was going to be one on Origins. Now my expectation is too high haha.
At Jun Senoue's office lol, they didn't leak xD
Now that the cats out of the bag regarding the music, it would be neat if SEGA uploaded one of the finished proto tracks to their youtube channel prior to Origins' release much like they've done with other recent Sonic games.
There's two sets of MIDI files in Sonic & Knuckles Collection: "FM" and "GM", and while you can never be completely sure, I suspect the FM version was the "lead" version, with the GM set coming afterwards.
There's two because not all sound cards are created equal. GM, or "General MIDI" will be using proper standards which dictate what the instruments should be, but it's up to the sound card vendor to decide what a "guitar" sounds like. So you're composing blind (or deaf?), making the most generic, uncomplicated version imaginable in the hopes that it will sound decent on every piece of GM-supported hardware. I mean you can hear this on YouTube - no two uploads of the soundtrack sound the same.
With FM, or "FM synthesized" MIDI, you are targeting older OPL3 cards (the manual dictates the Sound Blaster 16 is the minimum spec). You're converting music in MIDI format to something the card likes, which is less real instruments and more... FM synthesis. OPL3 is a Yamaha invention, as is the YM2612 in the Mega Drive - there's big differences, but a Yamaha -> Yamaha conversion looks easier on paper at least. And all OPL3 implementations are going to sound roughly the same (unless the card is really bad at emulating it).
Carnival Night still sounds weird when played with the correct hardware, but it's a decent enough showing for IceCap and Launch Base given the circumstances.
I don't know much on the technical details - whether the FM version had to drop some channels to get things working on older hardware (with this feeding back into the GM version, hence songs maybe sounding empty?). I'm also not totally sure what the market would have looked like in 1997, but it wouldn't surprise me if a good chunk of the target demographic had sound cards without general MIDI support.
The two sets were created at the same time by different people. If you look at the data you'll notice the midis are quantized differently etc. They probably had the tapes and the console versions at hand and sequenced those by ear. The person sequencing the GM track sequenced Hidrocity 1 from a tape and the person who made the FM set used the console version instead. Listen carefully to the section at 0:46 in both videos and you'll get it.
Is anyone feeling optimistic about how the coins will work in Anniversary mode?
I'm already feeling a little annoyed at how it messes up a perfectly good HUD for these games, and not sure they were needed at all. Why not just have infinite lives and a retry button for special stages in Anniversary mode, rather than adding in the extra wrinkle?
Because then getting all the Emeralds is an inevitability as long as you keep playing. With coins, there is at least still a choice the player has to make--do they want to spend coins trying the Special Stage again, or save them to unlock stuff in the museum?
It really isn't though, especially since some of those composers did speak on or allude to complications, whether real or imaginary, with the soundtrack. Buxer has, Cirocco has and them some, as have others from both Sega Sound Team and Buxer's crew.
What? All that's said there is that fans will recognise the tunes from Sonic & Knuckles Collection, but that their history runs deeper than that as they also appeared in the Sonic 3 proto before being replaced - the subsequent reply then states Jun Senoue is creating FM versions for Origins. There's nothing in either tweet that confirms these will specifically be using the proto versions as a base and polishing up from there. I personally do hope that's what'll be happening, but that tweet doesn't confirm or deny it either way.
They're not "needed", yeah they could've just made it infinite lives, but turning the 1up monitors into collectibles was a pretty decent idea, otherwise they'd become useless. I mean, they gotta change into something, and they're too well-hidden for rings or other powerups to make sense.
None of Team Buxer's compositions were included in S&K Collection, instead it featured the tracks from that S3 Proto and potentially other builds yet to be uncovered. So yeah, Stealth confirmed the proto tracks.
You misunderstand. What McAlleCh was talking about was whether or not the specific renditions as found in the November 1993 build would be used as a basis, as opposed to demo tapes or the 2 other versions that appeared in the PC version.
Ok, clearly there's been a misunderstanding.
Yes, the proto tracks are the ones that will be included, and Jun Senoue is making new versions of them, but Stealth never said that Jun was using the versions of those tracks as heard in the prototype as a base and just polishing them up. For all we know, he could use the S&KC versions as a base, the original MIDI demos, or go by ear and come up with a completely new mix. We don't know.
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