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Sonic Origins Collection - General Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, May 27, 2021.

  1. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    LBz

    The fact we now know there was a full soundtrack made for the game (the prototype) and suddenly the marketing guys bring a new set of musicians to replace them all...

    Do you think the original composers would be super excited about it? We got some reports people were thrilled about working with MJ but all points toward Michael Jackson leaving the project early due to the sound quality issues.

    Do mind that Sonic Team's hand was forced in other areas too, like having the game split in two due to the McDonald's deal.

    --

    Now, my personal opinion. It's an honor to have the PC songs back.

    They are a big part of Sonic 3 history, not only because they are the original tracks before MJ was brought in but because they are connected to the bigger picture of SEGA musicians who have spent years working with limited hardware to bring the sound we love into our homes.

    There's no reason to complain about the MJ tracks being removed. He stopped working on the project after the first song. and we've spent 11 years without Sonic 3 because of some 30-second "cues" (they're not even fully-fledged compositions by music industry standards).

    Now we're finally free. We may have Headcanon's remaster appear on mobile in the future,
    maybe M2 will include the game in the Megadrive Mini 2 or even a Sega Ages version! Who knows?

    That one is easy. They asked full price for Sonic & Knuckles. Having it replace some tracks in Sonic 3 does give the combined version a new life and makes the package seem more elaborate. New sections open up, new jingles. It's pretty cool how SK changes Sonic 3.
     
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  2. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    What do you think they'll do with like, Sonic 3 on the Mega Drive II mini or the Nintendo Switch Online service? Think they maybe hacked a special version of the original ROM with the replaced tracks?
     
  3. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    They're usually less elegant than that. I think they would use the stock ROM and simply modify the emulator to play external VGM files when needed.

    That's basically how they added more songs to the SEGA Ages version of Outrun.
     
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  4. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Oh is that how they do it? Honestly have no idea how that works.

    But I bet Stealth would know how to put those new songs in if required lol.
     
  5. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

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    It's M2, they assuredly know their stuff. They're the crew who built Fantasy Zone II DX using actual System 16 boards.
     
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  6. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    Yet, they didn't properly implement the spindash in Sonic 1 (if you spindash next to a monitor it doesn't break).

    And this applies to both the Sega Ages version and the 3DS port. If they had read the guide on the wiki they would have gotten it perfectly xD.
     
  7. Kob

    Kob

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    A significant portion of the soundtrack to a game many rank as the best ever released on the Genesis has been altered on legal rather than creative grounds -- likely irrevocably, given the delisting of the original ROM. That's a major reason to complain.

    I'm glad we finally have a resolution that will allow S3&K to enjoy the wide distribution it deserves -- especially since there's quite a bit of history behind the proto tracks -- but this is hardly the win-win some are making it out to be.
     
  8. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

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    It's arguably one of the best solutions to an otherwise bad situation.

    The best outcome would be that they created these tracks anyway and allowed fans to choose like AIR and Complete did. That can't happen, sadly.
     
  9. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    In the context of S3K they are 7 tracks out of 60+ songs (Knux theme, miniboss and Credits were already replaced). It's not that much.

    And don't forget the release of SK Collection in 1997 opened up a precedent about this.

    They took the creative decision to use the original tracks because probably sounded better on the medium they had available at the time (MIDIs) than the Buxer tracks would.

    It's not like they are now shoving in some random crap to replace orchestral masterpieces. MJ's Carnival Night and Launch Base were really divisive, I honestly never liked those and I know a lot of people here also didn't.

    The only track people unanimously liked was Icecap. That was a real banger, I have to admit.

    But also consider Jun was tasked to polish the tracks up to the quality of the other tracks. While I know people didn't like his work on Sonic 4, he's an amazing composer and he gave us many Sonic hits, including Sonic Adventure's own Icecap.

    He has a great responsability and I know he'll deliver.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2022
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  10. RikohZX

    RikohZX

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    I'm still curious about the other music. Competition Theme will presumably be replaced with proto,, Mini-Boss, Invincibility, and Knuckles get the S&K themes, but with Sonic 3 using the base theme instead of S&K I wonder how the Credits medley goes or if it's been altered to be more like Complete fitting in the whole soundtrack?

    They'd have to alter for prototype themes in that regard and if it still ends with the S&K theme at the end that might feel weird for a game that's not actually using the theme as the baseline anymore.

    oh wait i'm dumb it's been so long since i've heard the full zone credits medley that they do play the Sonic 3 theme at the end lol
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2022
  11. Kob

    Kob

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    That represents a quarter of the game's zones, accounting for Hidden Palace and Doomsday.

    Has that ever been confirmed? Seems it's just as likely to be the result of an error, as other recent posts have suggested.

    I'm less concerned with what tracks were subjectively liked than I am with the preservation of the release OST.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2022
  12. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    You said a significant portion of the soundtrack, not a significant portion of the zone BGMs :P

    Error? Jun Senoue oversaw the SK collection soundtrack conversion. He worked on Sonic 3 and even made tracks that are present in the final game (Act Clear, Game Over, No Way! etc).

    I think he would have noticed "one quarter of the game's zones" sounded a bit different!


    Don't be. The OST is preserved and all songs have been extracted from the game. Now, having the MJ tracks on new releases is impossible so just consider it:

    Hard Times gone by™️

    :eng101:
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2022
  13. McAleeCh

    McAleeCh

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    Hard Times: Gone, bye!
     
  14. shilz

    shilz

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    I think that the *feeling* the release tracks evoke is way more important than the melodies themselves. Ice Cap is haunting, Carnival Night is goof-off fun, and Launch Base sounds like you're breaking in somewhere to put an end to something. The PC tracks just don't compare on any level, which is frustrating because pretty much everything else in the soundtrack seems to have its own atmospheric qualities.

    I absolutely would've preferred legally distinct substitutes. I think what the LEGO Dimensions guys managed to do with Ice Cap in particular was pretty much the greatest legally distinct substitute you'd ever see, and would be a great fit as proven by its Genesis remixes, but I'm sure that's actually now yet another Ice Cap we'll never hear from again since it's likely entirely owned by WB Games / TT.
     
  15. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

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    I should also add that Jun's work in Sonic 4 Episode II was much, much better than Episode I. I myself was relistening to it and forgot how much I actually enjoyed a lot of those songs.

    So I'm no longer worried about his mix of the beta tracks. Whether or not I like them will be a bit subjective, but I have no doubt he'll do a good job. He clearly just had poor equiptment for his S4E1 OST, and that problem has long since been resolved.

    And heck, even his Episode I songs can be salvaged with some creativity...

     
  16. Azookara

    Azookara

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    Couldn't disagree more, haha. The Dimensions tracks give that same air that most songs done like this do; where they're composed in a way where you can tell it's based on something with a better melody. That kind of off-kilter feel that drives me up the wall.

    That and Carnival Night proto is way better than the final for me, as much as I like Brad's version. LB is also perfectly fine as a "you can do it! Big base ahead! The half-way point!" track, where admittedly it wouldn't have worked as well in Sonic 3 Alone as the last level. Ice Cap is my only true loss, but I have hope Jun can salvage it.
     
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  17. RikohZX

    RikohZX

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    Honestly sad no one's tried to really re-arrange Proto Ice Cap in a way to feel like it actually has more of a song to it besides Bouncy Glow taking cues from Diamond Dust. It feels like it's trying to build up to something and then abruptly is looping again, compared to even the other prototype songs having notable melodies and decent length like the rest of Sonic 3&K.
     
  18. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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  19. McAleeCh

    McAleeCh

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    Agree here re: the difference in tone and how that might have affected the feel of the climax of the game as released. Actually, to me all the SEGA Sound Team tracks for these stages have a bouncy and more positive energy which makes them feel more like mid-game stages, whereas the Jackson team's all have a more serious vibe that gives them more of a late-game feel.

    I wonder if that's anything to do with why the tracks were switched between our proto and the final - particularly as the claims 41 cues were composed suggests the Jackson team actually composed a soundtrack for the full game (both parts?), the majority of which just wasn't used. So why drop in just those ten or so tracks so late in the day?
     
  20. Chibisteven

    Chibisteven

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    Wouldn't it be funny as hell if the only zones were Carnival Night (Jam sample) and Ice Cap (Hard Times) got reverted to their proto versions instead of their final versions? I need popcorn to watch this community go a little crazy at each other if that happened. But in truth I can save my popcorn for a movie instead because I know they're all getting reverted to the proto versions.