Sonic Origins Collection - General Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, May 27, 2021.

  1. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

    The Voice Maestro Member
    258
    271
    63
    Cyber City
    Mega Man Zero: The Definitive Dub
    Dude. It's like that because the original cue doesn't have any credit attached to it. It's just "Sega". Both Smash's music section and the True Blue album only list the original composer as "Sega". Try searching for Marble Garden, for example. You're not going to find it in that repertoire, despite the fact that we know who composed it. They're not making any royalties off it. Sega owns it lock, stock, and barrel.

    Even Retro's own article on Sonic 3's development says Jun has made it clear that he wasn't the composer, although I don't know what the source for that is.

    When Angel Island was included in the 10th Anniversary sound box, Jun Senoue was not one of the composers credited, while several others related to S3&K were.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2022
  2. RikohZX

    RikohZX

    Member
    719
    153
    43
    Honestly the fact that the credits for the individual songs in Sonic 3 are such a mess is the major reason why this drama even started all those years ago to begin with. We dunno who called the shots on why this info was so poorly managed beyond the base credits in the game itself, and we still dunno who had the call to put the Buxer music in the final product when the prototype songs were there three months prior to release.

    It's to the point that this very site doesn't even know who exactly composed most of the music in the game on a per-track basis, something that even carries onto Sonic & Knuckles. Thanks Sega.
     
  3. Blastfrog

    Blastfrog

    See ya starside. Member
    I disagree, I don't think they sound good. It seems clear that they were trying to go for a fuller, more studio/cinematic style sound, and the Genesis just wasn't capable. In practice, it sounds terribly bit-crushed and empty. It was more ambient than the high-energy "video game tune" style the rest of the OST was made in. Sonic CD US pulled off this ambient, cinematic sound superbly. Shove it into SMPS in a rush and it'll sound like this:



    It was a mistake to have tried to change a handful of tracks at the last minute, and finally (even if their hand is forced) this wrong has been righted.

    I actually wonder if that's what Hector meant back in 05. That they had to rid themselves of the MJ team tracks during Sonic and Knuckles' production, and the two projects just kinda blurred together in his mind. That would actually make a lot more sense.

    Nah, I don't think that's an appropriate comparison. The Sonic 3 tracks that were changed were done so at the very last minute. The final tracks are an aberration. Stuff like different level orders were done much earlier in dev.

    And yes, the Sonic CD US OST is wrong. It's cool, but it's wrong.

    Detest it all you'd like, it's the truth. :P
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  4. CaseyAH_

    CaseyAH_

    human incarnation of Palmtree Panic 'P' Mix Member
    I actually like the way that sounds more then the CD version
     
  5. Spanner

    Spanner

    The Tool Member
    3,342
    142
    43
    United Kingdom
    Sonic Hacking Contest
    At least you can know who did what for Sonic 3D.
    Good call to whoever thought about putting it in the ROM.
    I mean, this one would have been good too.
     
  6. Crimson Neo

    Crimson Neo

    Loopin' around. Member
    Damn, SEGA should hire SiIvaGunner for the next Classic Sonic game OST. :eng101:
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  7. On the subject of soundtracks, I'd like to see Sonic CD fixed so that Stardust Speedway Good Future plays during the Metal Sonic race when in the Good Future and using the American soundtrack. Using the Bad Future music regardless is the correct behavior for the Japanese version, but it was deliberately changed in the US version of the game. Both Futures of Stardust Speedway in the US soundtrack were clearly composed to suit the Metal Sonic race.
     
  8. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

    Oldbie
    609
    335
    63
    Reminder that Sonic Jam's Normal mode just straight up removed the Barrel entirely as far back as 1997. This was a change made by Sonic Team directly. (4:03:30)

     
    • Informative Informative x 10
    • Like Like x 5
    • List
  9. Laura

    Laura

    Brightened Eyes Member
    I always interpreted Roger Hectors statement more straightforwardly. He said that MJ was due to work on the soundtrack, but he didn't and that another team did it instead.

    Which is pretty much what happened. Buxer and Co worked on the OST. He probably didn't even know they were MJs musicians.
     
  10. The Claw

    The Claw

    Member
    87
    4
    8
    Historically maybe, but the proto tracks weren't good (if Sonic & Knuckles Collection is any indication). Then again the timeline is murky because many Sonic and Knuckles tracks are already present in the proto we have.

    The Sonic CD OST was a departure in any form. I probably overall prefer the US OST, what little that's worth saying.
     
  11. kyasarintsu

    kyasarintsu

    Member
    239
    64
    28
    Do we know if we'll have controlled jumps out of rolls in Anniversary Mode?
     
  12. Harper

    Harper

    Member
    72
    46
    18
    From what we've seen, Sonic has been locked every time he jumps from rolling.
    Edit: Clarified what I meant. I was too vague.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  13. Clownacy

    Clownacy

    Tech Member
    902
    193
    43
    Wait, are people really trying to argue that Sonic 3's proto tracks are the game's "real" tracks? Are we forgetting that at least some of Sonic 3's soundtrack is composed of generic tracks that Sega just had lying around, like the Special Stage theme? Who's to say that the axed proto tracks weren't also generic sound library songs?
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  14. This is very likely a possibility, though I would like to note that thought had to have been put into the themes with Act 2 remixes. It is certainly possible they are library songs, but not ones without serious and legitimate consideration.
     
    • Agree Agree x 8
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  15. RikohZX

    RikohZX

    Member
    719
    153
    43
    Doesn't one of the Prototype songs also share chord progression with the Final Boss theme, too? I think I remember that a few pages back.
     
  16. pkderbar

    pkderbar

    Member
    193
    68
    28
    Launch Base. But also, Final Boss shares a melody with Stranger in Moscow!

    No kidding, they didn't even include anything in the section at all. I wonder who was responsible for putting this there in the first place.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 11, 2022
  17. nesboy43

    nesboy43

    Member
    210
    30
    28
    This is what's confusing me. People on here are saying that some injustice was done on the game and that the proto tracks are the original tracks.

    At the end of the day the team chose the final songs for the game. And the songs from MJs sound team are fantastic.

    I'm not saying anything bad about the proto music. It's not bad and some of it's pretty good.

    But what is this narrative about the final soundtrack not being the real soundtrack?

    Just because a late prototype didn't have the final songs in there doesn't mean that the final songs weren't planned to be in the game. The prototype songs were most likely done very early on and the new songs that were finished later on were not added until the end because in a prototype having the final music isn't the priority, it's gameplay/bug fixes.

    It makes sense to me that the placeholder songs were kept in a prototype.

    Quite a few of the proto songs sound clearly unfinished anyways.

    It was probably one of the last things done in the game.
     
  18. Sparks

    Sparks

    Member
    3,068
    64
    28
    Sondro Gomez / Kyle & Lucy
    There's also Ice Cap Zone Act 1s proto them syncing perfectly with the start of the snowboard sequence. Whether the song came first though and the sequence was designed and timed with the song in mind is anyone's guess. Either way, the synchronization at least implies that they were committed to that being the song prior to MJs involvement.
     
  19. nesboy43

    nesboy43

    Member
    210
    30
    28
    Something else to consider. Sonic Jam normal mode is the original team's "director's cut" of the first 4 games.

    These are changes made to improve the game and better reflect what they wanted.

    If this narrative people are creating about Sonic Team being blindsided by these MJ Team songs and being forced to swap their songs for new songs they didn't like is true, why didn't the Sonic Jam versions use the prototype tracks?

    That would be the perfect opportunity for Yuji Naka to do so.

    People are clearly inventing this weird idea in their head that Sonic Team didn't want the new music in the game and that their hand was forced, when I see zero evidence to support it.
     
  20. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

    The Voice Maestro Member
    258
    271
    63
    Cyber City
    Mega Man Zero: The Definitive Dub
    At the same time, if there really wasn't an issue with the MJ tracks in 1994, then why was the title theme/knuckles theme/miniboss theme replaced come the release of Sonic & Knuckles? Did Sonic Team decide that they didn't like those themes for whatever reason? Or did they just shoehorn in "new" music because it was a "new" game? And if it's the latter, then why did they ask Howard Drossin to do a new Knuckles theme if they already had one in the proto?