don't click here

Sonic Origins Collection - General Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, May 27, 2021.

  1. Ravenfreak

    Ravenfreak

    I dunno what I should put here. Tech Member
    2,994
    126
    43
    O'Fallon Mo
    Hacking Sonic Drift, Writer at Sonic Cage Dome
    Not gonna lie, I knew that the tracks would have to be changed but I am a little disappointed that my two favorite tracks are being replaced with the prototype tracks. (Ice Cap 1 and the Competition Menu music.) The proto tracks are fine, I just prefer the final ones. I was going to get the PC version at some point anyway for mods.
     
  2. Taylor

    Taylor

    Member
    234
    86
    28
    Yea, the Garfield game is speculated to be based off an earlier version. That's because the PC version has a level that was programmed in the Genesis version, but later cut. As well as the PC version having a different level order that the creators wanted (the order in the other versions was something enforced by the publishers, for whatever reason). There might be more evidence than that, but that's what I recall.
     
  3. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

    SAY HELLO TO MY CHOCOLATE BLEND Member
    2,020
    1,326
    93
    I'm assuming the new mixes will sound something like this:
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
  4. pkderbar

    pkderbar

    Member
    193
    69
    28
  5. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

    Professional Internet asshole Member
    1,215
    575
    93
    OR
    Actually, that'd be hilarious. Imagine if the game comes out, and only launch base and carnival night are replaced.
     
  6. foXcollr

    foXcollr

    Previously 'Hanging Waters' Member
    600
    510
    93
    US
    Oh god we've started Siiva-posting
     
  7. AzuraRacon

    AzuraRacon

    Member
    107
    58
    28
    I wouldn’t be shocked if they just end up using the sound fonts already there like this; would probably make a potential Rom modification a lot easier

    that glass break might be too much like playing with fire for Sega’s legal guys though, even if it was so unrecognizably compressed that the big guy himself didnt want his name on it (suposedly)

    Edit: lmao didn’t even realize I got Siiva’d but I stand by what I said
     
  8. Ashura96

    Ashura96

    HEROIC VERSE Oldbie
  9. Loop

    Loop

    Pure of Heart. Dumb of Ass. Member
    Fervor Records not only were able to produce those vinyls but also be able to synchronise the song on a couple of TV shows recently.

    Lots of people here in the thread have no idea how synchronisation and music clearances work, specially in the video game field.

    I don't believe the controversial tracks are owned by Michael Jackson's estate, otherwise they would have been found on PRO (Publishing Rights Organisations) catalogues or publisher listings, or even leaked in the underground scene. Hell, the only track that has been leaked was a demo of Strangers in Moscow, after they picked it up for HIStory.

    The claims made by that "leaker" about Origins sound like very good educated guessed. The estate guard being replaced has nothing to do with music negotiations, that's absurd. The issues, in my view, are directly with the composition team - Buxer, Scirocco, Grace, etc, which look to be settled now.

    It's important to note that relationships are super important when negotiating music clearances and licensing. Nakamura is close to SEGA, in fact, his Sonic tracks are now owned by SEGA's publishing company according to JASRAC. Considering our available evidence, it's clear the S3 western composition team are not in good terms with SEGA and any negotiations would fall short because of this.

    SEGA's music publishing company is not perfect, if it had lawyers like the Big Three do then we wouldn't be talking about this or Sonic Rush or JSR music today. Tiny tidbit, Jun Senoue gets royalties for Angel Island...
     
  10. Spanner

    Spanner

    The Tool Member
    3,350
    157
    43
    United Kingdom
    Sonic Hacking Contest
    Yes, this is a major concern. And people should be allowed to say that Sonic 4 was certainly a weak point of Jun Senoue. He did a good job in many games, but certainly not this one, especially with instrumentation.

    Episode II did sound better, as Senoue did actually find better sound patches for the instrumentation, but nobody should want that for Sonic Origins either unless all S3K tracks were in the same style.




    When you also take Forces' classic music into consideration (not by Senoue of course), the only decent Mega Drive-like tracks came from Yuzo Koshiro's Mega Drive Mini. I'm not considering Mania as "Mega Drive like" as that wasn't their intention.

    It would have been a lot better if the prototype tracks were ripped and fixed up by someone else, like on Stealth's team. That's all they really needed. They're only using Senoue to put name value and to put a good spin on these changes. Just a shame he hasn't done any classic Sonic style covers in recent years to show that he is the best man for the job, rather than so he can get involved in a game again since newer games barely use him.

    Bonus points if someone could reconstruct them back together in a format that could have been applied to the actual Sonic 3 & Knuckles ROM for stuff like the Mega Drive Mini 2. Then there'd always be a ROM available for releases. Never again would it be constantly discarded because of the music issues. At the end of the day, changing the music, regardless of who's doing it, is better than no release at all.

    Also Senoue getting involved probably explains why Sonic 3's title music is in use. Remember how it was reused in Sonic 4 as well as Sonic Mania for the 1up theme? Surely he asked for it over the S&K theme?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  11. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

    often the real thing™ Wiki Sysop
    7,333
    1,312
    93
    Northumberland, UK
    It's wiki time. There's no need to be afraid.
    Garfield: Caught in the Act/Development

    Ding ding ding.

    The level order change came from marketing, but levels cut thanks to time restraints, cartridge space, and some of them not being much fun. So it's less "older version" than "the version they wanted to make".
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • List
  12. Loop

    Loop

    Pure of Heart. Dumb of Ass. Member
    Additional note, Fervor Records cannot license 'Hard Times' to SEGA because they don't own the master recording of the Mega Drive rendition, only the rendition they have released which is the band version. So don't expect to hear it on Origins.
     
    • Informative Informative x 9
    • List
  13. SystemsReady

    SystemsReady

    I Have No Idea What I'm Doing At Any Given Moment Member
    926
    313
    63
    The Twin Cities
    trying to not fall asleep while writing Selenium tests
    THE SCREAM I MADE JUST NOW

    I am unspeakably hyped. What I said earlier about S3&K being an almost perfect game and enhancements bringing it closer to that ideal? I think this is easily one of them. Being closer to the original developers' vision before they got (very good) pop artists shoehorned in is closer to the ideal for me.

    Also re: Senoue, yall need to keep in mind that he's one of the original composers on S3&K. Remove the situation entirely from Sonic - having one of the original composers on to do new tracks is a best-case scenario for any remake.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  14. Xilla

    Xilla

    Super! Smashing! Member
    782
    149
    43
    • Informative Informative x 10
    • List
  15. VectorCNC

    VectorCNC

    Member
    591
    33
    28
    CNC Sculpture/Artwork
    At first I was disappointed that they are not using the original soundtrack, but then I started thinking that it would be pretty cool to have an alternative soundtrack using the same sound font. I certainly appreciate both soundtracks of Sonic CD. I mean, official-new-classic-music is something you wouldn't normally expect to ever happen. That said, I'll remain skeptical until I hear it, after all, Sonic 4 sounded like a cutlery set in a paint mixer... I have no idea how they considered that acceptable. For a standalone phone game maybe, but as the stated rebirth of the classic trilogy - HECK NO!
     
  16. Blastfrog

    Blastfrog

    See ya starside. Member
    Hot take: I'm actually pleased that they're going back to the prototype tracks. The MJ team tracks do not fit at all with the rest of the OST, they truly don't sound good on the Genesis hardware, and the act 2 variants were so lazy. I'm admittedly biased, having grown up with SKC, but these tracks are the true S3 OST no matter anyone's preferences.

    It would be really cool if we could have all of the MJ team demo tracks. That way, we'd have an alternate soundtrack that is in better sound quality and is consistent across the board. Would be interesting to hear what they had planned for all of the other zones, too. Never gonna happen, but I can dream.
     
  17. Starduster

    Starduster

    Sonic Retro's resident IDW slut Member
    1,378
    887
    93
    Britain
    Art...always art...
    Y'all have got it all wrong. When Scirocco was talking about his unreleased track, he was actually referring to The AMAZING Water. :colbert:
     
  18. Elratauru

    Elratauru

    Little Shiny Emurralds Member
    Now that we don't have limitations when it comes to music formats though...

    I just wanna mod the game to make this Knuckles theme as it should be:


    Knuckles Bandicoot RPG: The legend of the Lion King.
     
  19. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

    The Voice Maestro Member
    439
    366
    63
    Cyber City
    Mega Man Zero: The Definitive Dub
    I respect that a lot of people like and even prefer the proto tracks. I do too. But I hope people don't come at this with an attitude of "it was intended, therefore it is correct". I mean, what if every re-release of Sonic CD cut the American OST? What if they swapped the level order in Sonic 1 so Labyrinth Zone was the second level? That's what was originally intended, but I don't think a lot of people would be happy about it.

    It's a perfectly understandable situation that the music has been replaced and we may never see it again. I was prepared to accept that the lyrical versions of the Japanese vocal themes for CD were lost forever too 10 years ago, and so I can deal with it just like I did then. But I detest the idea that the MJ tracks are a corruption and the proto tracks are the truth.
    Well that doesn't make sense, since he didn't compose Angel Island.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 2
    • List
  20. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

    Member
    2,292
    455
    63
    Huh....I thought THIS was the official extended version of Knuckles' theme:



    (Sorry time stamp won't work, go to around 44:37.)