don't click here

Sonic Origins Collection - General Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, May 27, 2021.

  1. RetroJordan91

    RetroJordan91

    The REAL Blue Sphere Guy Member
    I’m not one to believe leaks, but I believe the reason why a deal had to be made in this case is due to outstanding royalties for past re-releases of the game

    This is just speculation and we will most likely never know the real reason.. but a compromise had to have been made where SEGA won’t be legally challenged on any re-releases of Sonic 3 going forward as long as the royalties are paid off and the infringing music is replaced
     
  2. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

    The Voice Maestro Member
    439
    366
    63
    Cyber City
    Mega Man Zero: The Definitive Dub
    Wait, so talks opened up again, and the result was...still changing the music? I don't get it. Wouldn't they have had to change the music regardless of who was running the Jackson estate?
     
  3. I hope these new versions are going to be more "the prototype tracks polished" and less "dying cat synth because that's what the Genesis sounds like right"
     
  4. Starduster

    Starduster

    Sonic Retro's resident IDW slut Member
    1,381
    888
    93
    Britain
    Art...always art...
    Scrolling through the thread, I've seen several people lamenting their disappointment at the fact that the 1994 release tracks won't be part of Origins, and I think it is understandable to do so, given this can't be changed on consoles without modding said console itself, but look on the bright side: If you just want to listen to the original tracks, they're not going away. The original release will always have them, as will the internet, and in their place we're getting new arrangements of the prototype tracks.
     
  5. nesboy43

    nesboy43

    Member
    210
    30
    28
    You bring up a very good theory and it is well explained.

    However with Sonic Jam the games are also ported, like with Sonic and Knuckles collection. Like you said it may have slipped through the cracks , but Sonic and Knuckles collection came out 4 months before Sonic Jam.

    It's really confusing and makes no sense to me.

    I also find the narrative of people suggesting the composers "wanting more" (which numerous people suggest) as sad. I love the Sonic 3 Soundtrack and its composers.

    If the composers just "wanted more" they would have no case. A creator can't just chose to ask for more money without reason. Sounds like Sega did something against the contract they had with these composers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
  6. McAleeCh

    McAleeCh

    Oldbie
    1,268
    269
    63
    Could be as simple as a lack of communication between different divisions - for example, the Sonic & Knuckles Collection team realised there was a potential issue and substituted the tracks, but the Sonic Jam team weren't made aware of this and forged ahead with recordings of the Mega Drive tracks.

    There's also a slim possibility that the prototype soundtrack was used in Sonic & Knuckles Collection in error, in which case the full implications of the music situation may not have been widely realised until later down the line. The Mushroom Hill Zone 1 BGM lacking its intro in the PC release could point to an earlier version having been used for some reason, though judging by the state of the tracks for the contested Sonic 3 Zones it may have been more developed than the version from the prototype we have.

    Either way, whatever source they came from is presumably lost if SEGA's had Jun Senoue go back to the original demo tapes for reference - I wonder if he'll be tweaking the proto tracks to better match their original demos, or will be re-arranging them from scratch?
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
  7. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    Making bootleg tracks would've just led to outrage, from both fans and maybe even the MJ estate lol. This at least gets the benefit of being the Sonic 3 that was possibly intended to us the entire time.

    I think the idea is that the Jackson estate at the time was so stingy that they wouldn't even discuss Sonic 3 unless it meant opening the wound completely and diving into lawsuit hell.

    The implication seems to be that the new management would accept Sega using non-MJ tracks for the game. Jackson estate doesn't get the money situated and Sega doesn't go to court with them, which works in Sega's favor. But out of their favor, they don't get to keep the tracks bound to Sonic 3's identity, preventing them from a "true" rerelease and potential divisive/negative reception (something that's already well began).

    Neither side truly gets what they want, and that might be good enough for both sides? I don't know. That's just me trying to parse it, if any of that Zippo post was more than a lucky guess.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
  8. Taylor

    Taylor

    Member
    234
    87
    28
    I wouldn't take Zippo's "leaks" to heart. He's very much a "throw shit at the wall and see what sticks" kinda guy. The idea of porting over Sonic 3 with replaced prototype tracks has been around since pretty much right from when the prototype was leaked. I mean think about it, how would he even get this info? Is he both a game tester *and* a lawyer for SEGA? :V

    As for the S3K Collection music, I doubt they realized the legal issues. What likely happened is they used an earlier build of the game that had the original music, probably by accident. This sounds boneheaded but was not uncommon back in the day for PC ports. Garfield: Caught in the Act is one Sega PC example of this, actually. There is some evidence for this.

    I doubt anything changed legally, what happened was the warm reception to the prototype music gave Sega the courage to remake the game and get it over with already.
     
  9. Xilla

    Xilla

    Super! Smashing! Member
    782
    149
    43
    There's always the chance that everything did get resolved and the music is just too expensive to licence now. Especially if its something the estate might want to exploit in the future.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
    • Like Like x 7
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • List
  10. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

    Member
    14,258
    1,333
    93
    Working on my art!
    Well we can all say this for sure. It's complicated and red tape is fun :eng99:
     
  11. Spanner

    Spanner

    The Tool Member
    3,350
    157
    43
    United Kingdom
    Sonic Hacking Contest
    They usually go out a few weeks before release. Generally people who give out the codes, approach people themselves, rather than you applying for them.
     
  12. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

    The Voice Maestro Member
    439
    366
    63
    Cyber City
    Mega Man Zero: The Definitive Dub
    I dream of this being true and the original MJ cues get released on an album someday. Fuck, just imagine.
     
  13. Naean

    Naean

    Naean H.F. (Nez Man) Member
    752
    126
    43
    United Kingdom
    2D. Sonic Fan Game
    Shit man, I can almost guarantee that numerous Hydrocity Zone instrument remixes would rapidly emerge online in under 24 hours after them releasing "The Water" for the first time.

    Within the fucking hour even, remixes would be flooding in. :V
     
  14. Iggy for Short

    Iggy for Short

    Member
    676
    86
    28
    Sweet! As much as I could've gone either way, I was hoping they'd end up doing something with the proto tracks. I wonder if I'll be able to resist spoiling the new renditions for myself
    before I actually reach Sonic 3 in my initial playthrough. :eng99:
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
  15. pkderbar

    pkderbar

    Member
    193
    69
    28
    Hydrocity wasn't made by the Jackson sound team.
     
  16. Forte

    Forte

    I speak better after three beers Member
    458
    170
    43
    Poland
    I was sad for a moment, but then I remembered, that Sonic has the greatest hacking community on the internet,
    so Ice Cap shall return in some form.

    Also, looking forward for Jun's "remasters".

    ...I wonder if the rediscovery of the proto tracks by the community pushed Sega.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • List
  17. McAleeCh

    McAleeCh

    Oldbie
    1,268
    269
    63
    For context - from what I can recall, "The Water" was named a long while ago as a piece that Cirocco Jones (from Jackson's team) had supposedly composed for the Sonic 3 during development - presumably unused, most folks assume it would have been an alternate Hydrocity theme based on the name alone. So what's being said is that, if the demo tape for "The Water" were ever released, folks would likely be tempted to try and remix it using the instrumentation for SEGA's Hydrocity track which got used in the game as released, as sort of a mash-up of the two different Hydrocity themes.

    (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on any of the details there - it's been a while, so I may be misremembering which of Jackson's team this one was attributed to)
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
  18. Naean

    Naean

    Naean H.F. (Nez Man) Member
    752
    126
    43
    United Kingdom
    2D. Sonic Fan Game
    Oh yeah I know; to clarify, what I was getting at is pretty much as @McAleeCh described above. :)
     
  19. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    I just thought it would be funny if SEGA actually secured the rights specifically for Icecap by licensing the track from Fervor Records.
     
  20. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

    Oldbie
    655
    380
    63
    That's certainly one honest concern...

    If the tracks sound less like a refined version of the Beta mixes, and more like a Sonic 4 mix... that's gonna be a problem.

    I think Jun will treat them better than that. He's actually an excellent composer and anything he mixed in the betas already sounded good. But good lord, imagine how big the blow up would be if these replacement tracks end up honestly sounding bad...


    Not to get off topic, but can you elaborate on the Garfield info? I only played the PC version and really liked the OST back in the day (late 90s), but I had no idea it used a prototype or early version of the songs? Is that what you're saying?