Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, May 27, 2021.
And more than that: proto Launch Base even has the same melody pattern as Final Boss!
While we'll probably never know the truth, my personal theory is that it actually was the other way around, e.g. those MIDIs were the first thing created, to be used as a reference like the Sonic 3D tape. So it's not that the MIDIs have been "jazzed up" by the composers, but rather that the SMPSes have been simplified.
Again, this is just a theory.
Also, it might apply only to certain songs and not to other ones, since the Blue Sphere song is known to be much older, for example. So it's possible that some MIDIs predate the SMPSes, and that some SMPSes predate the MIDIs.
I totally get that the music swap had to happen to make Origins (and hopefully a Mega Drive Mini II release of S3&K) a possibility. Having said that, I view the proto tracks as more of a novelty than anything. The release tracks are iconic and have been integral to my experience with this game for decades.
Definitely not regretting my preorder, but I'll probably delay my Story Mode playthrough of S3&K until the release tracks are restored via modding.
They defo waited for enough people to get their pre-orders in before dropping this bombshell though didn't they?
I was a dumb child growing up with 2 and 3, and I'd always keep resetting my save because I dropped off around Marble Garden. Thus I only rarely saw Carnival Night, and didn't really get to experience things like Ice Cap or beyond, much less play Sonic & Knuckles, until the Mega Collection. And let me tell you, the bopping tones suddenly changing to the more atmospheric approach even back then felt "off", but I don't have the same nostalgia for it as I did the songs prior.
There's a reason why I bought Origins on PC for the future modding potential, but so long as Senoue can get these mixes down pat, I'm not complaining about the prototype tracks too much besides my previously-mentioned dislike for how basic Ice Cap is compared to the Carnival Night or Launch Base proto songs.
If they are reworking the proto tracks, I really hope they remove the Launch Base intro. It's so awful.
I do feel like it needs some kind of intro but yeah any time I listen to that one it almost immediately puts me off. Maybe change up the outro into the loop as well
We have a Twitter thread from Stealth elaborating a bit more. For the sake of cleaner reading, I'm going to combine multiple tweets into one quote and just link the first tweet of the thread.
I'm happy with this change. I would prefer the MJ/Buxer tracks instead because it line up with the original release but a whole new generation of fans get to enjoy S3&K anyway and the proto tracks weren't terrible either. I have a lot more faith in Jun Senoue than some people here do. It seems to me that the Jackson team might of brought this onto themselves were their music is removed completely and the discovery of the proto tracks might of been their undoing for holding this game hostage with whatever unreasonable demands they had.
Ah so SK Collection is indeed a 'finished' take on those prototype tracks.
It is a shame the final tracks have to be omitted but really like many say, if it is the neccessary sacrifice to make S3 rereleases possible again, I'll take it, especially since I like the proto tracks too.
@E-122-Psi I hope they ignored the PC versions even if they were technically finished as most of them I found sounded worse than their incomplete S3 Proro counterparts.
Well remember back in the day when we all said we'd be ok with them using the PC tracks if only so S3K can come to mobile? Welp, it happened. We made the monkey's paw wish like someone else mentioned.
Also yup, my dream called it premonition confirmed . It'll be fine though I think. Little jarring but if it was between this, scrapping those 3 zones, and just not remaking S3K, well I think they made the right choice. Least the replacement tracks aren't just sound alikes, there's some history there anyway.
Not at all surprised by the music news. If it’s what’s gotta happen for the game to come out then so be it. This news does make me lean closer to getting the PC version with the hopes of mods but I am concerned about denuvo. I got forces for $10 on sale last year and I just downloaded it today to gauge how a game with denuvo will run. There was frame stuttering during the cutscenes. The gameplay seemed fine... however forces feels awful to play so this prob isn’t the best game to test this. god damn it sega. If it weren’t for denuvo I’d have preordered this game. Instead I’m waiting for it to come out to see how it runs on PC.
Okay, wow. This is literally the first time someone representing Sega, or at the very least a Sonic developer, has said the words "The music in the Genesis version was made by MJ's sound team". Isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong. Up until this very moment, they've continually tried to push a narrative that any music in the final game sounding like MJ's music was pure coincidence and all of it was replaced. This is the first time someone representing Sonic/Sega has said "Yes, we admit it, some of MJ's music made it into the game".
I sure hope Stealth cleared what he just said with Sega before sending out that tweet, because if not, oh man.
I think it's safe to say that today and yesterday have been extremely notable days for Sonic, particularly for the hardcore fans such as all of us on 'Retro and whatnot.
Like many people, I'm not shocked whatsoever about the music being changed, but I am surprised that Katie (And later Stealth by association.) acknowledged and talked about it prior to Sonic Origins' release.
The next very notable Sonic day will probably be Sonic Origins' release, when we'll get to hear these prototype tracks officially released in updated forms. I can't fucking wait!
Didn't expect to get confirmation so soon. The idea of an "FM makeover" sounds very promising, considering the proto versions we're used to hearing sound decent but a few of them feel super empty. Props to Katie and Stealth for clarifying
thank you thank you, perhaps that article is poorly worded then or someone gave some bad info, because in the last 2 paragraphs it sort of implies something else, which we now know to be false
He’s posted a clarification
That still doesn't disqualify the fact that Sega representatives previously would have had you believe that any work done by MJ OR his sound team was replaced, by Howard Drossin and composers from Japan. The only ones who've said the contrary up to now were MJ's sound team. The one time a Sonic 3 developer spoke the truth, in that one Pop Fiction episode, their identity had to stay anonymous. So this is still a first, whether it's MJ or just his team. Sega isn't keeping this under wraps anymore.
So they're gonna be the prototype tracks, but a new version of the prototype tracks. Intriguing. I am of the opinion that the prototype soundtrack fits the game better, so I am ok with this change and am very interested in listening to these new takes.
This is all really exciting to me! Ever since I heard the prototype tracks I fell in love, so having polished versions of them by Jun is gonna be great! I can't wait to hear them.
Edit: had to fix a few typos
I'm not Sega
Separate names with a comma.