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Sonic Origins Collection - General Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, May 27, 2021.

  1. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

    The Voice Maestro Member
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    Mega Man Zero: The Definitive Dub
    I would've thought the proto tracks would've been finished up like the others were, even if they weren't used, and that Sega would still have the finished FM sound source.
     
  2. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    The prototype songs were a hit on the internet. Everyone mildly active in the Sonic community knows them by now. In a way, I wonder if the very positive reaction to them made SEGA warm up to the idea of re-releasing Sonic 3 in the first place.

    Judging by the style of some proto tracks, like "Proto Knuckles theme" and the "Unused track" those were most likely composed and arranged by Jun Senoue. He also overlooked the MIDI conversions in Sonic & Knuckles Collection. From all SEGA staff, if there's someone who knows everything that happened behind the scenes it's him. He probably also discussed the options with the dev team (which range from using the proto songs, the lego dimension versions, or even making new stuff).

    I wonder if the Sonic 3 music legal problems go farther than the lawsuit from the OG composers since while we got confirmation that Brad Buxer licensed Ice Cap to SEGA, he's not mentioned in any capacity in the copyright registry of Hard Times -- only Bruce Connole is.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
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  3. foXcollr

    foXcollr

    Previously 'Hanging Waters' Member
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    Well I think Rhythm Raccoon is a very cool raccoon.

    Idk if anyone remembers this archaic GamesTM article, but it seems they're saying Howard Drossin had a heavy role in swapping the soundtracks. Do we know what exactly he did and if he was involved with the 3KC proto tracks?

    http://info.sonicretro.org/images/d/d2/Makingofs3kpg4.jpg

    Edit: Nevermind, if I recall correctly, Drossin was only involved in implementing the tracks on Genesis hardware, not writing them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
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  4. AzuraRacon

    AzuraRacon

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    I wouldn’t be shocked if sega themselves didn’t even have any Sonic 3 prototypes anymore, let alone finished music

    this is the same company that regularly finds their classic games’ source code disks in former employees’ garages
     
  5. CaseyAH_

    CaseyAH_

    human incarnation of Palmtree Panic 'P' Mix Member
    If i recall correctly, the instrumentation of the S&K Collection MIDIs is noticeably more complete then the genesis versions of the proto tracks. The first thing that comes to mind is proto Ice Cap having proper percussion asides from just a kick drum and some barely audible cymbals. That could very well mean that they were completed before being replaced by the final songs, or it could just as likely mean someone decided to fix up the MIDIs before the S&K Collection was shipped out.

    (Plus, sega being sega, its not unlikely that even if the proto tracks were finished they managed to lose them at some point)
     
  6. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    I am quite jazzed to find out the original Sonic 3 tracks are going to be in the game.

    No offense to Brad's music at ALL btw, because I actually love all of the tracks from the final release, but in the past few years I've really come around to believe they don't fit stylistically with the rest of the OST, while the proto tracks do far moreso. Proto Carnival Night 2 and the competition music might be some of the best songs in the entire series, so as much as I will miss Brad's Ice Cap I think it's gonna be alright in the long run. Especially if it means we can stop pretending Sonic 3 never existed and praise it as the series pinnacle we all know it to be.

    The only thing I'm worried about is if Jun changes too much about the proto tracks. Improving Ice Cap proto is more than welcome since it definitely feels unfinished, but I hope he doesn't drastically change anything about CNZ or LBZ. They're very good songs as-is.

    (Random funny thought, but what if in an alternate universe we got Sonic 3 on both Genesis and Sega CD, and the latter had a full "MJ" OST while the Genesis one had the original proto one? It's not too far-fetched, considering we got two soundtracks for both Sonic CD and Sonic 3D Blast.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
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  7. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    It's hard to say really, it might just have been the MIDI composer jazzing things up since some of the other tunes got more complex arrangements here and there.

    Some of the S+K remixes and instrument choices seem to have influence from the promo OST for example. Compare both versions of the final boss theme for example.

    Actually speaking of the OST, I'd LOVE if they used to opportunity to add the extended riffs to some of the tracks, especially ones like Lava Reef.

     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
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  8. Imagine if Jun improves proto Ice Cap by fusing it with Sonic Adventure's Ice Cap.
     
  9. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    I think I'd faint.
     
  10. CaseyAH_

    CaseyAH_

    human incarnation of Palmtree Panic 'P' Mix Member
    That'd be pretty ambitious considering SA Ice Cap has 3 whole songs.
     
  11. Crimson Neo

    Crimson Neo

    Loopin' around. Member
    Plot twist: Jun Senoue will just remix Diamond Dust. :ssh:
     
  12. Ashura96

    Ashura96

    HEROIC VERSE Oldbie
    If Jun is rewriting/remastering the proto songs using "Genesis Hardware" I wonder if that means we could potentially see them replace the songs in a ROM version for the MD Mini 2 or other future emulation based releases.
     
  13. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    He wrote the SK Knuckles theme, SK Title Screen, SK 1 Up, SK Invincibility, and parts of the SK Credits.

    In Sonic & Knuckles Masaru Setsumaru implemented Drossin's tracks on the Mega Drive, not Drossin himself.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
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  14. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    Classic Eggman art Member
    If I've read correctly, Jun Senoue has demo types of whichever songs they're referring to, so I'd expect those tapes to have fully fleshed songs instead of those proto versions, plus I still don't like them as they are in all of their known versions, so my hopes are in Jun to make something I like instead, because he made those Big Arms and Death Egg tracks I like so much.
     
  15. Crappy Blue

    Crappy Blue

    Knuckles' Chaotix is a perfect game with no flaws Member
    Not trying to pull the thread into being about this, but it's worth saying more emphatically that Retro is a downer. The general tone of Sonic discussion on this site is that of being frustrated and sad, and that's been its nature for a long, long time. There's no point in being like "well if you don't like it here..." about it, because a lot of us put up with the garbage to engage with specific aspects of the community, and the fact that's managed to matter enough to keep us around this long should count for something. Why shouldn't we want places we want to hang out at to be less draining to hang out at?
     
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  16. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

    The Voice Maestro Member
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    Well, because Retro is not obligated to be a "safe space" for fans who love Sonic blindly and unconditionally.

    Retro can be quite toxic, but so are Sonic Discord servers where fans jump down your throat for even daring to criticize something Sonic-related and throwing out that stupid "let people enjoy things" meme like this is Ba Sing Se and everyone's putting on a fake smile pretending nothing is wrong and everything's perfect. Sonic fans have every right to consider this series guilty until proven innocent.
     
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  17. Jason

    Jason

    *Results not lab tested. Member
    We're also a bit older and jaded than most other online Sonic hangouts. We get happy about very specific things here. Otherwise it's a debate.

    I'll probably pick this up for my nephew for the holidays.
     
  18. Doafhat

    Doafhat

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    The music change isn't ideal, but I think it's an acceptable trade-off in this case. Obviously, it'd be best to have all the options on the table, but sometimes that just isn't feasible when dealing with rights issues on legacy media.

    Given the choice between including S3K with remastered prototype tracks or "All your favorite classic Sonic games are here! ...unless your favorite was the one we didn't include," I'll take the alternate music. Between the original games and all the superb work by fans over the years to create the best possible versions of S3K, there are still plenty of ways to play the games with their original music.
     
  19. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    I doubt the demo tapes have fully fleshed out tracks, they're demos in he first place. If that was the case, the proto songs in SK collection wouldn't sound emptier and less developed than the ones in the prototype. I mean, while Ice Cap act 1 and Launch Base act 1 sound broken, they're clearly incomplete conversions. The remaining tracks all have bells and whistles the SK collection versions don't have.

    And again, Jun Senoue overlooked SK Collection. I think this means we'll get the songs reverted to SK collection as a starting point (PC pitch etc) state and then finalized by Jun Senoue so as not to feel so crappy.
     
  20. AzuraRacon

    AzuraRacon

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    Oh man I’d love it if they took the chance to add that flourish into the loop on the Big Arm theme

    it sounds so natural in the PC version and that one Project Chaos remix that I actually forgot it wasn’t there the last time I played it lol