Sonic Origins Collection Announced, Releasing June 23rd, 2022

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, May 27, 2021.

  1. Londinium

    Londinium

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    If we're not getting MJ's tracks, there's a chance we might get this instead over sped up music/no music. Infinitely more bearable than the original at least.

     
  2. Londinium

    Londinium

    People actually read these? Member
    Speaking of Sonic The Hedgehog 3 prototypes, I really do want to see a reimplementation of the cut ring shooting feature.

    https://i.imgur.com/QkpUgR1.mp4
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2022
  3. Honestly yeah, the whole Sonic 3K OST thing is the main thing I am curious about. The """leaks""" from Zippo suggest it is gonna be the proto OST, but I don't exactly trust Zippo, and we haven't had anything official on the matter either. Heck, whose to say it doesn't use new tracks for those levels, or if its some sort of hybridised situation?

    IceCap Zone (and apparently Carnival Night Zone) are coming back as playable zones at least, so that suggests something with the OST was sorted out.


    god, imagine if they just cut out all the S3A zones after Marble Garden, what a nightmare that would be
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2022
  4. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

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    They don't need to cut any zones, as the music issue was literally given a solution in 1997.

    Hell, the PC port was my first experience with Sonic 3, so I have far less attachment to S3 Genesis Carnival Night and Launch Base.

    Still, losing Ice Cap will generate a lot of controversy.

    I'm starting to have a bad feeling the Zippo leaks could be right (so far most stuff said about Origins does line up), but we'll see. As others have pointed out, he's been wrong too.
     
  5. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    The thing to consider is whether every track that got replaced is one with a legal dispute. If the answer is yes, then we're not seeing a "hybrid" OST for any reason.

    They won't, and would not ever, cut out a zone because they didn't have the music for it. That's just a completely bonkers suggestion. They would, at worst, make entirely new tracks for it.

    Zippo is not to be trusted. He has spread enough obviously-fake nonsense that whatever accurate information he has provided probably came from someone more trustworthy first, and his tendency to flame people with even slight skepticism is reason enough to not take his word with much more than a grain of salt.

    I don't know whether we'll be getting the original tracks or the beta mixes, just that Katie not tweeting about it is not a sign of one thing or another. If they're the originals, then they didn't tweet about it because nothing's changed. If they're different, then they didn't tweet about it because that would only bring negative attention.

    Either way, it's hard to really fret much. No matter what version of the OST is in the game, I have no doubt the other version will be modded in quickly. And sure, I guess you can be upset that the vanilla game doesn't include one or the other, but what are we losing here? Returning players can have the differences explained to them, and new ones likely won't care that much. You can just link them to the original version of Icecap anyway.
     
  6. nineko

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    I know I already said this like a hundred pages ago or so, but since the super Sonic music has been brought up again, and they might still be reading, I'm going to say it again: some people actually like the invincibility music (the one from S&K of course, not the one from S3). I get that some other people don't like it instead, and I respect that you're asking for an option to disable it, but I hope that that's what it's going to be, an option, give people the chance to keep the super Sonic music as it should be if they want.
     
  7. SSUK

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    https://www.vg247.com/sonic-3-ost-michael-jackson-history

    Hm.
     
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  8. The article certainly does raise some good points, but I can understand why SEGA is being silent about it in regards to Origins. At the end of the day (it’s likely a business decision) they know that saying something beforehand is going to turn a majority of people off and it’s all about sales and making money. It’s a lose lose situation no matter what unless they actually got the rights to use the MJ tracks.

    If they had just given us an official explanation of Sonic 3’s absence over the past 11 years (“we are unable to include this game due to licensing issues with the soundtrack” etc.) then I’m sure fans would have understood and the aftermath wouldn’t be as bad.

    These decisions made during the original game’s development are coming back to bite them in the ass now. But at the same time, they could use this as an opportunity to explain to consumers that the beta tracks were actually conceived during development of the original game (which we know they were).

    I still stand by what I said since Origins was announced that the beta tracks are being used and I am perfectly fine with it. I will sit back and watch everyone explode on social media about the music :V
     
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  9. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    I won't even sit back on that one.
    I only follow people's opinions on Sonic games here xD
    Too much toxicity and triggering these days...
     
  10. TheOcelot

    TheOcelot

    Scooty Puff Jr sucks! Member
    Speaking of soundtracks, IIRC Taxman said he remastered the music for S1 & 2 mobile versions (not sure whether Stealth helped with the music as well)? So I assume the music for the new version of 3K will also be remastered.
     
  11. foXcollr

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    The fact that SEGA has refused to port/remaster S3K for so long gives me some hope that they resolved any kind of music issues, and that the timing of Origins has something to do with that. Here's hoping, I guess.

    Although... honestly, the beta tracks aren't so bad. It's just definitely gonna be a little more confusing for new fans who buy the game, because they'll end up learning later down the road that there's a whole other soundtrack to 3 whole zones. But I can tolerate beta Launch Base and Ice Cap, despite them feeling much less fitting imo. For pickier fans like us, a Steam workshop mod replacing the music will probably come through pretty quickly anyway.

    Carnival Night though? Beta Carnival Night can fucking stay. Beta Carnival Night can take my life savings. Beta Carnival Night literally deserves the entire world.
     
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  12. Childish

    Childish

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    IIRC it was only the drum samples that were remastered, as well as the sound effects and music not cutting each other off.
     
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  13. HEDGESMFG

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    So here's the issue.

    I think if you read between the lines, SEGA simply breached major legal contract when it dumped Jackson but used the music anyway. Depending on what the estate (or even Jackson himself) could have legally asked for due to this breach, the amount of money being requested for doing so could be substantial, and addressing it in any way could be admitting to doing it on the record, which could have lost them the case (or opened up a path to a new lawsuit even now). This is the big reason why they've been silent about it so long, as discussing it could mean a judgement against them and significant financial penalties. SEGA is still a corporation at the end of the day, and we live in a world of companies making dodgy legal decisions and sometimes getting bit in the ass for their mistake. I've had to read up on a lot of employment law disputes over the years, and that article points to something that has all the telltale signs of it.

    My guess is that 'if' the music does not show up (and that truly is still a big if), the consequences of Sega doing this could have been substantial. Possibly even a payout in the range of millions, or comparable to what the sales of a product like this are likely to generate in profit.

    Flipping this around, if they settled out of court and 'did' pay to reach an agreement, or even got a judgement in their favor, it could still end up being a situation where SEGA cannot admit to ever having worked with Jackson directly and simply needs to pretend this isn't the issue. We have heard about working with Jackson from interviews with many former employees over the years, including Buxer's team themselves, whom are not likely under the same contract anymore, but as far as I know, no official SEGA employee has ever acknowledged it.

    It also might make the decision to de-list the older games more telling if removing the existence of Sonic 3's original soundtrack from any store is one big factor. I believe at least 'some' other versions of Sonic 1, 2 and CD (SEGA AGES, Mobile) will remain up, but Sonic 3 disappears entirely outside of Origins and is not digitally sold anywhere once these are removed.
     
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  14. pkderbar

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    This article was clickbait which is why I avoided sharing it here. They assert that it's unlikely with the only rationale being the quote you provided. That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
     
  15. RikohZX

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    In my opinion, if the Beta tracks come back, they definitely need some rearranging to try to improve them. They never felt quite "right", besides the different composition style, and I'm hoping they go Bouncy Glow tier reworks or even beyond that to try to make them truly fit into the game better.
     
  16. MykonosFan

    MykonosFan

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    I was looking into this a bit last night due to a conversation in the Discord, here's what I found shortly after Sonic 1 (2013) was announced.
    https://forums.sonicretro.org/index...y-taxman-and-stealth.31061/page-4#post-736345
     
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  17. Forte

    Forte

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    I suppose SEGA won't say anything regarding the music for one simple reason.
    People are talking speculating about the game. It generates interest in the product.

    As for the music... First time I've played S3&K was on PC, the beta music, an I never had any problems, when I tried the Mega Drive version later on.
    I don't think it's really a problem, not when people can mod the s*it out of all of the games.
     
  18. HEDGESMFG

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    Almost everything in that article directly correlates with real stuff this very community has uncovered since at least 2006. It's just a convenient collection of the facts in one place, and honestly, one of the better collections I've read on the topic. I wouldn't endorse it if it didn't match factual stuff I've read here for 16+ years now.

    Do you have any idea how long it took for most people to even realize that Brad Buxer and the other members were part of Jackson's own team, despite their names being in the credits since 1994? That stuff was uncovered here in plain sight yet most mainstream sources ignored it for years and always talked about Jackson himself only. Aside from some small bits of informed speculation, most of what that article has is accurate and focuses on actual things that have happened and been uncovered.

    Anyway, I'd certainly be happy to be wrong and have the OG music in (even if I prefer a mix of the soundtracks in my own S3AIR Playlist), but I think SEGA's utter silence on the matter might be worth paying attention too.
     
  19. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    I personally don't have any problem with changing S3K's soundtrack either, only because it's my least favorite soundtrack of the classics (S1-CD-2-3K). But of course it would be nice to have it all.
     
  20. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

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    Or maybe putting that music in the remake was expensive, and they didn't want to spend that money until they saw Mania's sales and thought now the cost would be less than the profit.

    Oh, and I don't mind if they change the music to those levels, but I don't like the beta music, so I think I'm in trouble. I'm quite sure, however, there's a way to make tracks similar to the original ones that don't violate copyrights and feel close enough to not alienate us when listening to them.