The problem isn't the engine. Taxman said the new rDSKv5 retro engine was used for 3K and implied it's running on all the games, which is the latest Mania engine. It's the art assets. Knuckles has specific sprites for CD that need to be redrawn which SEGA clearly didn't want to take the effort to draw for whatever reason.
Precision and accuracy aren't the problem. Controlling stuff without tactile buttons just feels awful.
It's not about the games being hard to play, it's about the games feeling like shit. I can complete 1/2/CD on my phone no problem, but it's just...not fun to do. I need buttons, some sort of feedback, anything. Playing a video game by touching a slab of glass just isn't fun for me.
I think some people here have set their expectations high. I personally expected barebones ports with widescreen and that's it, and I actually got more than that. Anyone who expected more than what they initially promised back in May 2021 was setting themselves up for disappointment. Learn to expect the bare minimum from this franchise and you'll have a better time.
Jumping in to the topic in general, not specifically just at you. It's a nice ideal to be able to launch game software with a movie release for synergy, but both ends have so many moving parts and unforeseen setbacks that the fact that Origins is releasing a couple months after the movie feels really damn good. In a world where covid spikes still happen, movie dates get shifted on a whim from execs (possibly what happened with the Mario movie just getting pushed months back), and unknown communication levels between movie studios and IP owners, it makes a lot of sense that the timing often doesn't work out. Should the game side be able to plan better? We could say that, sure, but there's also quite a few Sonic games on shelves as is (even if a lot of us here would probably prefer "better" Sonic games to be on shelves ). Not to mention that there's a few free Sonic games on phones that are much more likely to be played by kids who are jazzed about the film, some that actually feature characters from the films. If anything, I have to wonder if having a brand new entry on shelves for a general audience is actually kind of a worse thing. Unless there's signage pointing out that the game is new, I'm not sure the hypothetical layman audience to cater to would even know it's the "new" one. Even if there is, it's likely going to be the highest price Sonic game by the virtue of being the newest, when games like Mania or Forces are much more likely to be on those shelves for around $20 instead. I see it go around that there needs to be a new game on shelves for these Sonic movies, and for a while I heavily agreed, but after thinking it through I think it may not matter as much as we make it out to. Not to mention that SEGA struck into really good fortune with the Roblox Sonic Speed Simulator timing, that's something kids coming off the movie are probably more likely to be able to try out. I definitely agree in wishing there was some data available as I do find it very interesting.
I’m not in either crowd of people, I’m just observing this conversation. I have to say however that if the 2p modes are omitted, then that’s below the bare minimum expected and people are right to be annoyed. Especially with the bogus DLC packages and the game being £45. I’ve been playing Sonic 1, 2 and CD’s remasters on my TV via Lightning to HDMI iPhone cable with 8BitDo’s Mega Drive pad, online multiplayer, Game Centre achievements, lovely UI and presentation and personally not sure if Origins is up to scratch with that experience, an experience with 9+ year old games at that.
Idk how anyone can look at Origins and Generations side by side and say a fully customized, graphically distinct, and nearly bugless UI is no better than an off-colored character select square that pops up with off-center sprites (from the wrong game) and off-center nameplates, a music bug upon closing the menu, and looks ripped straight out of the mobile port or Ages ports, with no graphical identity or style whatsoever, but to each their own I guess. I'm not even one of the folks who thinks the game is a dumpster fire, I think it should be alright. But (ignoring Forces) after Lost World, Generations, Mania, and even Colors if we keep going back, I've just come to expect a certain level of polish. I normally would expect the bare minimum, but we've already been shown the price point, and it's higher than almost anyone expected, so I did expect a little bit more for that amount of money. For anyone worrying about 2 player, I'm sure it'll be included. I'm not sure why it wouldn't be, or why we'd think it isn't. If it isn't included then we can all panic, but I see no realistic reason why it wouldn't be in the game. They have barely shown us anything, so there's bound to be stuff we haven't seen in the menus. iirc he wasn't saying all the games are running on V5. This is why some games still have roll lock, while others apparently don't. Apparently v5 is just backward compatible, which helped them get every game to work together in one program/"launcher", but they should still have their own physics oddities and whatever quirks come with their respective version of RSDK.
Could've sworn it was explained earlier in the thread RSDKv5U is just RSDKv5 (Mania) but also backwards compatible with the earlier RDSKv3 (CD) and RSDKv4 (S1+S2), but I'm having trouble finding the source for that. edit: ninja'd
The drop dash and coins are the changes. The Sonic CD intro and ending cartoons are also being remastered. Plus the mirror modes and missions as extras. That wouldn't be a "quality of life" change. QOL features are small things for player convenience. Being able to restart a time attack in Sonic Mania by holding down a button is a QOL feature.
Hitting the action button isn't the problem. Directional input is irritating at best or outright frustrating when there is no physical feedback to tell your brain what direction your thumb is pressing without looking. Not being able to tell whether a button is even registering input when you press it is always a bad thing, even if it can be tolerated.
I'm not sure why the roll lock appearing in Sonic 1-3K is a problem, to be honest. Even Taxman seems to think it was intentional, and these games have never been released without it as far as I can tell. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what the problem is, though.
I just hate the roll lock. It limits the fun stuff you can do with spindashing into jumps off slopes and it sucks. I'm objectively right for feeling this way btw.
If you're referring to what I said, I don't recall saying it's a problem, but that is one way we can tell the games are not being rebuilt in the same engine. But I do also agree with the opinion above
Honestly surprised my simple question actually exploded into a big realization like that. I think I'll enjoy the collection, I think most honestly will on the sheer principle that it's still the Classic games, but it does hurt that most of the work is 3&K and the rest is Sega handling it while playing vague about stuff. There's this weird feeling where it does seem some anger is overblown, but at the same time it's Sega, there's always some monkey's paw catch with anything that isn't just a straight up game.
Backwards compatible doesn't mean features can't port over easily when the engine is unified. Heck, functionally Super Sonic already exists in CD in the form of an S monitor powerup, just without ring drain or sprite changes. Also, hopefully the version of Sonic CD ported into the collection is the later mobile RDSK builds with bugfixes, there's honestly no reason it couldn't be. In the end, it doesn't matter. Coding knuckles into CD would be trivial compared to most other features within the engine. Testing and animating him for the stages would take a lot more time and manpower than I imagine actually porting him would. Even the mods have had a solid year's worth of continual updates to get it right. I wish they would just do it, but clearly they for whatever reason didn't see the resources as worth sparing unlike in the initial Stealth/Tax Sonic 1 port. I'm not even sure if announcing it as DLC in a few months would be good or bad. I guess it depends on if there's evidence discovered that he was planned, but excluded for DLC deliberately. Vs cheap DLC is offered (or even given for free like some of the Plus updates) because of our actual feedback.
If these are just the old ports wrapped up in Sega's thing, though, that does mean that potentially all the Decomp knowledge might be able to transfer over far, far more seamlessly while we learn the 3&K port from the ground up.
Yeah, the most likely scenario is that the old games are using more or less the same scripts as what we have now (compiled into bytecode of course), so everything we know about those should be applicable here. The game may not include a script compiler (only the Steam version of CD did originally) so script mods would have to be pre-compiled (which we have tools for) unless we can hack in our own compiler as part of the inevitable mod loader. S3K will be coded in C++ like Mania was so doing anything codewise there will be similarly difficult.
Taxman confirmed in the Retro Engine Modding Server that RSDKv4 was touched up to allow split screen multiplayer for Sonic Origins. It's not direct confirmation that SEGA will include it, but you usually don't make changes like that unless you have to.
