Sonic Origins Collection Announced for 2022

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, May 27, 2021.

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  1. While I agree that it was suspicious that the teaser/trailer made no mention of the Retro engine being used, it was still equally suspicious to include the "original footage" disclaimer. The teaser did explicitly state that there would be new features included, which unfortunately still doesn't rule out emulation. Too many red flags for me to lean on the side of emulation however, such as something I've hardly seen mentioned: nearly every platform already has these games emulated either in a bare-bones package like Sega Mega Drive Classics, or in the case of the Switch with the Classics and the retooled 3DS ports. This waiting game to find out this crucial bit of info is bound to drive me bonkers. :psyduck:

    Super long-shot here, but since this is a package serving to showcase the earliest adventures of Sonic I'd really love to see SegaSonic as like an unlockable or something. Really not banking on that happening for this package, but it'd be a great opportunity to establish exactly where that fits in the timeline. Naturally I assume it is the very beginning.
     
  2. HEDGESMFG

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    An idea often not discussed here is that we may actually be responsible for the legal issues as a community since we exposed the similarities. It's common for copyright issues to often sweep under legal scrutinty or not get enforced until the general public becomes aware of them, even if both parties knew about the agreement prior.

    Copyright and IP brand protection are very subjective, sticky issues with no real consistency. What's okay and not okay often depends almost entirely upon both parties, and what one party thinks pressuring/suing the other legally would be worth. In the same sense that fair use exists not as a guaranteed right, but a legal defense, copyright exists less as something to be automatically be enforced for the sake of it, more as something to be enforced if the publisher sees it in their best interest to do so.

    It may be the public exposure of the songs and their connections that has forced Sega to tread more carefully and made the Jackson Estate, whomever, more aggressive.
     
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  3. Starduster

    Starduster

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    I was pondering this specific thing myself the other day, but about Rush’s OST. Around 2013/2014, there was that whole blowout of community members tracking down the sources for the samples used in the soundtrack for the game, and look where we are now. Not only is Rush’s OST still missing from Spotify, Right There, Ride On was cut between Smash Wii U/3DS and Ultimate. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.
     
  4. Xilla

    Xilla

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    I always assumed the Sonic Rush soundtrack being missing from Spotify was something to do with issues between Sega and Naganuma. He's mentioned stuff about retaining the rights for his music on Twitter in the past IIRC (Somewhere in between the shitposting and Family Guy memes)
     
  5. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    See, I think it is music issues, but not for the reason we're thinking.

    Consider what also happened around that time. Specifically, on June 25th, 2009. Michael Jackson, the King of Pop, passed on. And if I recall correctly, his dad was infamous for being a penny pincher and trying to get the most money out of everything. So imagine a company like SEGA using your deceased son's soundbytes?

    Smells like a payday there.
     
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  6. Chibisteven

    Chibisteven

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    I'll say it. I'm glad I bought the Sonic Rush CD many years ago after buying Sonic Rush Adventure's. Can't take that away over a rights issue the way they can on a streaming service. Hell if you properly back up your DRM-free downloads (i.e. iTunes or Amazon) like I do from a legit store they can't go industry shark on you either because you kept working copies of the files you bought.
     
  7. Zycor

    Zycor

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    I know for the remake of Sonic CD they weren't allowed to use the lyrics but the BGM was fine, although, on Spotify it seems like they have the rights to use the lyrics from You Can Do Anything and Cosmic Eternity on those streaming versions.

    The thing that seems weird to me is for Sonic 3, it seems like there aren't any issues with them using the music in digital distribution platforms if it's just the original rom, but it also seems like with other games having licensing disagreements leading to music being removed from older games due to that (see older GTA digital releases, and Quake)... I know replacing the music isn't the easiest thing, but people have done it through rom hacking. SEGA could hire that work for their use or they could do scripts to mute those tracks and play the midi versions of the "offending tracks" and I'm going to guess SEGA could give the caveat that they own the end product of whatever changes were done. Although I also know some people will notice the music is different who aren't using these forums who played these games growing up, or recently through various other means.

    Also the thing about Sonic Rush seems like a bit of a stretch to say it's because of the samples used. At least not in America, I'm pretty sure you can sample stuff pretty freely so long as you aren't basically just copying the original (Although, not going to like, the boss music in Sonic CD cuts it pretty close, but I'm also not a lawyer.) It's probably like what Xilla said about Naganuma. I've also heard plenty of sampling in other Japanese artists and none of their stuff has been removed from Spotify. Although there have been instances of issues, like with Sonic Spinball's initial Dreams Come True riff on the title screen. Was that ever determined to have been on anything other than rental cartridges? I thought it was still undetermined. Although there's also Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog which uses parts of Dream's Come True's music and even did an episode where they put lyrics to it, they're still selling DVD sets with that episode and they also used the music in other areas in every episode.

    In the end it wouldn't exactly surprise me if SEGA just does emulation with scripts to achieve wide screen Sonic 3 & Knuckles, that would probably be the least headache inducing resolution, if there is indeed some kind of legal issue. Unless there's some other type of thing that could be done. I don't know why the Michael Jackson estate would care all that much about Sonic 3's music. It seems like they've had to do negotiations/compromises with Dreams Come True and the people who did the vocals for You Can Do Anything and Cosmic Eternity, with the digital re-releases of Sonic CD excluding lyrics. I could be wrong, but that's just what I am currently thinking.
     
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  8. Laura

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    The idea they could get away with the Sonic 3 music in its original rom form is a popular theory but isn't supported by the evidence. There doesn't seem to have been any problems with Sonic 3 re-releases until the 2010s. It's true that PC Collection used different music, so maybe they didn't hsve the rights ro the music in different soundfonts. Yet from the 2010s onwards, the game was not re-released full stop. It didn't mafter if it was just the original rom being emulated.

    I think the most likely scenario was less melodramatic than a lot think. There were probably outstanding issues regarding the music copyright which SEGA knew about and so they just didn't want to risk it at all and just steered well clear of Sonic 3 period. Which is why I think they must have resolved it now.
     
  9. Zycor

    Zycor

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    Were you just unable to buy Sonic 3 & Knuckles on console past the 360 and PS3 (I don't remember if it was available on WiiU)? I know Steam is still selling it.
     
  10. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    How many times has Sonic & Knuckles been re-released post-2010?
     
  11. Starduster

    Starduster

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    As far as I’m aware, the latest rerelease of Sonic 3 (& Knuckles) was on Steam in 2011, a year after Classic Collection hit DS.
     
  12. Harper

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    360/PS3/Wii was the last gen it released on for consoles. You can still buy it from the respective stores that are still up and play Sonic 3. The newer Xbox systems have backwards compatibility for it, which is interesting. It means Microsoft had to get the rights from SEGA to make it backwards compatible.
    Aside from that, the only other releases Sonic 3 has had at all are Classic Collection on DS in 2010 and Steam in 2011. It's still up on Steam as well.
     
  13. Laura

    Laura

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    Well that doesn't contradict my theory, that they just didn't re-release Sonic 3 in any form because they were primarily scared of starting trouble. I think it's probable that they were so cautious they didn't even re-release SAK because of its close connection to Sonic 3.
     
  14. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    Technically speaking, the latest rerelease of Sonic 3 (& Knuckles) was 2016, when it was made available on Xbox One via Xbox 360 backwards compatibility.
     
  15. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

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    Something I feel bears mentioning about Sonic & Knuckles Collection: In non-Japanese regions it included Sonic the Screensaver on the disc, which included sound files for all the tracks from 1, 2, 3K, and CD...except the MJ tracks.
     
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  16. Blugenesi(Jarty)

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    So, recently Mr. Whitehead was on twitter and he posted about his old 3D test that was recently rediscovered. Not to play conspiracy theorist here, but if he truly wasn’t involved whatsoever in the Sonic Origins project, couldn’t he have said so right then and there? There’s no way he could get into legal trouble over it if he said “no I am not involved” right? I just wish someone could give us a simple straight answer
     
  17. So many people concerned about whether or not Christian Whitehead is involved, as long as it's the Retro Engine and a competent coder/s I'm down.
     
  18. Mana

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    Not true. Samples have to be cleared by the original artist or whoever owns the music before they can be used. I'm a big underground rap fan and I'm very used to songs that have been on spotify for YEARS suddenly becoming unaccessible because it turns out the samples weren't cleared properly and the original rights holders JUST found out about it.

    I can see a situation like that for Rush considering how obscure some of the samples went and with how many. They might not have discovered it on a decent selling DS game that they probably never played in 2005 but when it's on Spotify and able to be detected or easily discovered they might run into some issues.

    Unless you meant that you can sample freely in places that aren't America which might be true. Pokemon Black and White used MJ's Black or White song to promote the game in Japan on one of it's TV shows and they never saw a dime from it.
     
  19. JaxTH

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    Jack shit.
    The lyrics are in the Windows Phone version IIRC.

    Sonic 3 actually never came to the PS3.
     
  20. HEDGESMFG

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    Yep, this was my first ever exposure to Sonic CD's JP OST, a year before I ever even played CD. I loved listening to it and guessing which track could've been a boss track.

    I was also very surprised when I got the PC port of CD and the music was completely different (US version).
     
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