Sonic Netflix series

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by The Joebro64, Dec 10, 2020.

  1. Jason

    Jason

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    We're talking about a franchise that's dipped its toes (forgive the insinuation) into every medium over 30 years. All it seems to ultimately do is splinter the fanbase. I've been led to believe we desperately crave continuity, but never seem to get it for more than a few years at a time. A franchise can try new things without throwing everything away except for the basics of character design. Why not seek to unify an extended universe outside of the games?
     
  2. Linkabel

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    I think that this route they're going is the better option that they could do.

    I know extended/shared universes are the big thing now, but they have a lot of drawbacks.

    Need a strong individual with a clear vision to lead the charge, lots of resources/time and creators/companies playing nice with each other.

    Even Marvel/Disney struggles with this time to time and they're all under the same umbrella, now imagine how messy it would be between 3 companies (Sega, IDW, Netflix).

    Another big drawback is that it forces the consumer to keep up across various media to get the "whole picture."

    It also forces one medium to call the shots and clip the other's creativity in what they can do or not.

    I'm not opposed to characters like Tangle, Whisper or others showing up in the show.

    But from a creative standpoint it's better for each medium to remain canonically separate.
     
  3. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    I just don't want them to invent another entirely separate universe like Boom or the movie. Just keep it generic modern or something but please no more redesigns. Now as for different art styles sure, I wouldn't mind having a break from the general style of character models we've been seeing since 2008 (Sonic's changes here and there slightly but the rest have recycled models for 12 years now, mix it up it was great then but now it's getting stale).

    Anyone else think it's weird that they've used like 3 different art style approaches (Colors/Unleashed cartoony but realistic detail, Lost World cartoony, and Forces kinda hybrid) but they kept the character models the same? It gets kinda clashy.
     
  4. Xiao Hayes

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    We need Sonic the Sketch-hog in 3D, that would be the ultimate Sonic cartoon.

    Now seriously, making a totally different canon for this show is ok; even Sonic Boom TV made me think "What did I miss here?" when Metal Sonic, Shadow and the ancient technology appeared since I had no idea about the actual games of the branch and the episodes were mostly a bunch of sequenced gags.

    I guess they'll go for a more basic Sonic, sort of "place this wherever you want, it won't ruin continuity". If Sonic and co. stop Eggman's latest plot without references to the presence of humans or different game timelines, they'll be good. Don't put in Chaos or the Sinister Six, don't say where did Blaze or Silver came from, and everything not named Master Emerald will be fine and dandy.
     
  5. Boxer Hockey

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    I mean there's a big difference between sharing a canon and like, whatever the heck Boom was trying to do. Both the show and the comic should ideally reference and draw from events of the games and exist in that core timeline. But to have two different teams operating out of concert yet having to make concessions for each others storylines is just going to end with two creative teams cut off at the ankles. That doesn't mean every new venture has to be boom/movie-esque reboot. It doesn't need to be that black and white.

    To give an example: Say we have a TV show and a comic running at the exact same time. Identical in setting in every way, just telling their own individual adventures. Now say the comics wants to introduce a new character and they have their origin story play out and become a new core member of the cast. Villain or hero, it doesn't matter they become a permanent part of the scenery. Does the TV show ignore that characters existence? They can't just appear in the show as if they'd always been there. And the character has no weight or purpose without their origin. So do you just have to re-tell the same story that was already told in the comics? What if it's not a character but a world-changing event like.. blowing up half the moon? This is the difficulty of trying to run two productions at the same time that share the exact same canon. At one point they either have to splinter off, or just be a straight adaptation of the other.
    For another example, you can make a faithful Spider-man movie universe that tells the stories of the Spider-man comics but in a completely different way, but the movies will never be good without the freedom to adapt to their medium. Separate canons is the best thing for a franchise split across different media if the people in charge respect and understand it. The problem is just that Sega keeps giving the keys to the wrong people.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021 at 1:06 AM
  6. VectorCNC

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    I think there may be hope this show returns to the Classic Sonic personification/universe. I say this based on the following trends…


    -The continuous decline of Modern Sonic, as last evidenced by their BIG FLOP - Forces. The modern iteration is experiencing diminishing returns.

    -The widespread appeal of Classic Sonic following Mania, which proved mature gamers still like Classic Sonic, and Sega can appeal to both audiences with Classic.

    -The popularity of Mania Adventures, also Classic Sonic, and made popular a new more-expressive Classic Sonic, a design enjoyed by everyone.

    -The low production cost of Mania Adventures, which if nothing else showed a popular cartoon could be produced “affordably”.

    -Consider that a substantial subscriber base for Netflix will be an age demographic that grew up with Classic Sonic, just like people who enjoyed Mania…

    -The Sonic movie was a huge success and is known for two things: 1. The highest grossing video game movie ever, and 2. They made it better by listening to the fans and restored Sonic's design, which people preferred because it was CUTE. What are mature “Sonic Fans” stereotyped for always complaining about Sonic? “Make him good… again. Return to the when Sonic was in his prime. Remove the green eyes!"

    -Mania Adventures, and Movie Sonic were both designed by Tyson Hesse, so a charming and popular vision has emerged.

    -The Sonic movie also appears to be following a plot somewhat similar the classic trilogy. Critics enjoyed that the Sonic Movie appeared to emulate the original story, as an origin. So a cartoon advancing a similar narrative/universe also helps to coalesce the brand which is suffering from diffusion at present.

    -Then, we have the same company making the show as made those Peanuts cartoons, which is just interesting because I've been saying for years I'd like a Sonic sort of like that...

    -Meta-Sonic is associated with “Modern Sonic”, and following Sonic Boom and the last decade of twitter, Meta-Sonic has become a bit stale, and Sega has reason to change course and start taking Sonic seriously again (FOLLOWING CLASSIC SONIC IN MANIA). This cartoon will want to differentiate from Boom, which was like Modern Sonic on steroids, and I think Sega is ready to take a few steps backwards towards Sonic's roots.

    -The brand is circling the drain in terms of identity, and the only obvious path forward that has emerged as a winner is the Classic universe. Being Sonic's anniversary this is the perfect time for revisions and evolution.


    Probably I’m wrong, but I think we might finally be getting the cartoon I always wanted. I'm usually so negative, so maybe this is a good omen... I expect we will see a redesign similar to a mix of Classic and Modern, but more recognized to be “Classic”. This will be seen as a sort of relaunch of the Sonic brand, a unified Sonic, moving forward into his next decade.

    My only other wish would be for Robotnik to be more sinister, insane, and FABULOUS, like Him from Powerpuff Girls. The best villains are FABULOUS sinister villains, and Robtonik is essentially god-like in his abilities and eggstensively egg-o-tistical. Then he has that creepy Sonic-lust love/hate thing going on... This needs to be played up more.
     
  7. BadBehavior

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    Wouldn't that just exacerbate the problem the series currently has on relying on classic nostalgia pandering?

    Besides, if it did go classic, it'd just be begging for another slew of riots similar to when Project Hero classic-fied their entire design.
     
  8. Dark Sonic

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    That got negative reception? I just looked it up, the classic models they made for that look fantastic.

    And yea, while I'd love for the series to revert to the Classic universe, it won't. The series identity is too tied to modern, what with the comic, TSR, you'd get younger fans being pissed that their favorites are gone in favor of 90s throwbacks. Of course if "classic" was just an art style and not a universe this wouldn't be a problem, butttttt :eng99: yea.

    IMO all characters should have modern/classic variants and they change depending on the games art style or direction. Like Lost World absolutely should have used the classic models, the modern models look ridiculous in that game with the more classic looking badniks and levels. Or hell, "classic" could be a skin. If Crash 4 can have over 20 costumes for both Crash and Coco, some which have completely different models, then Sega should be able to make one extra fucking model for a character. But apparently that's too hard for Sega, as in Forces you can't play as Shadow in levels that have cutscenes in them. Too lazy to make basically a skin work for a few more levels, fucking pathetic. Hell, making models is too much work, they've basically used the same models since 2008/2011 with only minor changes to Modern Sonic (which usually make him look worse), although this only applies to Sonic Team projects, the spinoffs have different models sometimes (TSR did and I hope they use them moving forward, they look nicer). I can't think of any platformer/mascot series besides Sonic that is guilty of this much reuse except maybeeee Kirby, but that series' identity has been long solidified. The Mario series reuses promotional renders sure, but the game models change and evolve. Mario's model in Odyssey is absolutely not the same one as used in Galaxy. Maybe not the most fair comparison, but Colors was on the Wii and it's model was essentially a lower poly Unleashed model. Meanwhile Sonic just looks cheaper and cheaper and cheaper. Like in what world should Unleashed, a game from 2008 in the previous generation, look better than Forces, a game made in 2017 on better hardware with a more advanced graphics/lighting engine. Just fucking stupid.

    Younger me used to long for consistency. When Unleashed came out I hoped they'd use those models forever... and then they did... and now I long for change. Be careful what you wish for lol.

    Alternately I wouldn't mind a style merger. Something in-between modern and classic, kinda like Sonic Adventure 1. I think it could be done (like take classic, give him modern's color scheme, his eyes have a green tint instead of brown or gray, he's a little taller, spikes like Runners Sonic length, give his shoes not red soles, and he retains noodle limbs and the round stomach (ugh the avatar in forces like rectangle torso was so ugly).
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021 at 1:07 AM
  9. Jason

    Jason

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    I would argue in favor of something similar to Dragonball. I know it's a bit messy. But even its stupidest, most outlandish endeavors feel like there's a respect for the main series; wanting to try new things in sidestories, filler, and other mediums while incorporating the main canon and whatever sidestories fit the need. I'm so sick of how disjointed this franchise and Sega as a multinational company is as a whole, that I'd rather there be some spaghetti code in the plot, rather than pathetic crumbs of flavor divvied out at random whims from different chefs.
     
  10. Boxer Hockey

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    I think we're on the same page there. There should be consistent core. For Dragonball it was the manga, for Sonic it should be the games.

    FYI, to respond to an earlier comment I am not involved in this show. I've been in the loop about it but don't have the bandwidth to be a part of it right now. But for what it's worth I probably wouldn't have chosen to do a classic show anyway. Sega is never going to return to classic wholesale, and the split isn't doing this franchise any favors. The goal should be to just make Modern stuff good enough that people don't need to reminisce anymore. imo.
     
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  11. RDNexus

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    I'd also like to see such a redesign. Something between Classic and Modern. Something to connect both continuities.
     
  12. Frostav

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    And yet amazing characters like Whisper and Tangle are basically doomed to be ghettoed in the comics forever.
     
  13. VectorCNC

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    So to be clear, when I was talking about a return to “Classic” I didn’t mean an outright discard of Modern and all of it’s characters and baggage… Although that wouldn’t be as crazy as it sounds, because it has been done many times previously. I meant more of a philosophical return, a hybrid of modern and classic which is distinctively familiar as “Classic”.

    To me, this would mean that all the modern characters can continue, but in a classic-esque interpretation. The setting would be more analogous to the Classic trilogy, with a focus on anthropomorphic beings, and perhaps an outright abandonment of the “human world”. IMO one of the greatest affronts to the Sonic universe was the inclusion of human civilization. It looked jarring and strange when Archie Comics was the first to do it, and it still does today. I think this was done because following the Genesis and the delayed transition into 3D, Sega was looking to evolve Sonic into a direction that was sort of a hybrid similar to Final Fantasy. I think part of the drive in this direction had to do with pushing the hardware advancements of the Dreamcast. At the time, going from 2D to 3D, the gaming industry naturally fell into a competition as to who could render this new 3D world most realistically, as evidence of console superiority. The introductory cinematic of Sonic Adventure makes this goal obvious, “Look at Sonic in that realistic bustling city full of realistic people!”. But in hindsight I think this was a big mistake, because everything that formerly constructed Sonic’s identity went out the window… the aesthetic, the music, the primordial plot, the character archetypes, ALL OF IT.

    But I won’t delve further into the console gameplay other than to describe why I think it influences Sonic moving forward, and what we therefore may see in the Netflix show… IMO, probably the biggest error Sega made was to confuse Sonic being fast, with the pursuit of the fastest possible gameplay style. Whether the fans of Modern want to believe it or not… Sonic can never become a powerhouse IP again as it is currently composed. Modern Sonic gameplay is NOT accessible to a wide enough audience for Sonic to become anywhere near as popular as he once was respectively; modern Sonic gameplay is very niche, and the games will therefore never get the level of development and resources we all expect from a game with as much history and recognition as Sonic. They could make a technically-improved Modern Sonic by avoiding rushed development and poor mechanics, but there is an element of diminishing returns at play here with the boost variant of Sonic. Forces was evidence that this formula is running out of prospects.

    I think the best scenario is to generally ignore the Sonic-Human universe going forward. Alter the character designs as to be a hybrid of modern and classic, but with deference to the Classic aesthetic (because it can capture both audiences), and then begin fleshing out the Classic universe more fully.

    I think that for the IP in general, more thought needs to be given to the roles each character plays and simple archetypes that humans naturally understand. So for example, Tails should not be “boy genius” on par with Robotnik. This obviously confuses the characters’ roles within the plot. It’s just a cheap response to Robotnik’s abilities, but also serve to neuter Robotnik… I mean Robotnik isn’t so special if Tails can do it too, right? What I am badly describing is complimentary character personalities, attributes, and roles. Think of the show FRIENDS, and how each character was the personification of an ancient Greek personality type. Or consider the common themes of Disney hero’s and villains. Robotnik should be more than just an aggrandizing old scientist, he should be sinister, think Disney villain, “Keep it gay”. Robotnik would revel in his own glory and image, as he is a perversion of patriarchal masculinity. I know I’m getting bogged down here in academic concepts, but these are basics of world building that are sorely absent from Sonic, and why the brand appears so diffuse. Sega needs to get serious and flesh this stuff out already.

    I’m not particularly familiar with Dragon Ball Z, but of what I know of it, I think that seem appropriate to emulate. Anything more in line with the Sonic CD animations would be AMAZING and it’s a bit odd that with all the Sonic shows that have been produced none have attempted the manga look yet, short of Mania Adventures.
     
  14. Azookara

    Azookara

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    Humans have been a part of Sonic far before the Adventure games or Archie's adaptation of them. The Man of the Year short, the OVA, the implication that civilization exists at all in the classic games (backgrounds in Sonic 1, 2 and etc featuring buildings, cities, ruins, et cetera which you COULD credit to anthros besides Sonic, but most of the cast besides Sonic at the time were little baby animals so I doubt it), one appearing alongside Sonic as early as the first commercial, Madonna's very existence, and Eggman himself.

    Humans were always supposed to be around, and are hardly an 'affront' to anything besides the western canons. Don't know why people continue to get so caught up on this like it means anything, lol.
     
  15. BadBehavior

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    I admit calling it a "riot" may have been a bit hyperbolic. I just meant it was yet another kerfuffle in this fanbase that seems to happen on a regular basis.
     
  16. SuperSonicRider

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    I'm not sure the way they keep the comics "separate" (except maybe whatever's going on with the freedom fighters, not super informed about that) is solely a "Japan vs western" thing. It just seems like the continuity of non-game stuff in general, like the OVA or Sonic X for instance, doesn't really affect the games.

    Tangle & Whisper did show up in Sonic Dash and Sonic Forces: Speed Battle, I'd love to see them be more prominent outside of the comics.

    About Classic or Modern designs, I would kinda prefer Modern in this case, and I anticipate that design being used since it was in the teaser photo, but I wouldn't care much either way it goes. Again, I'm just looking forward to learning more about it at all. But Sonic's apparent track record with shows leads me to think it'll be decent and consistent at the very least.
     
  17. Dark Sonic

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    I got bored and started that Modern/Classic hybrid. I started with Sonic but felt like adding Tails (why is Tails hard to draw?).
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Jason

    Jason

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    I do miss Tails and Knuckles having actual snouts. And Tails being actually orange.
     
  19. big smile

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    About the shared continuity between mediums: I think it's a case of be careful of what you wish for. Long-running franchises like Sonic have multiple visions. And if you start having shared continuity then it's too easy for one of those visions to push out the rest. That's fine if the chosen vision is the fanbase's favorite. But usually, long-running franchises have fractured fanbases.

    I'm a huge Power Rangers fan and leaks suggest that the Power Rangers franchise is going to be unified across mediums. 30 years of TV year continuity is going to be tossed out in favor of shared continuity across film and animation (and probably comic books) that focuses on the original '90s team. That's great for fans who love the originals, but it's heartbreaking for everyone else. With the old system of different continuities, then different mediums could cater to different segments of the fanbase.

    I know no one asking for a shared continuity is also asking for just one vision of Sonic. But it just feels like the start of a slippery slope.
     
  20. RDNexus

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    There's one key difference between Sonic and Power Rangers: Medium.
    Power Rangers is a TV series (with occasional games, movies and comics).
    Sonic is a game series (with occasional TV shows, movies and comics).

    Sonic fanbase is divided by Classic/Modern Cast, Serious Plot/Light Plot, Platform/Boost Style.
    Only the third point could become irrelevant in a TV series, due to not being a game.
    Still, plot and cast presentation is a major issue, depending on how it's approached.