Sonic Month 2019: Sonic Chaos

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by drx, Nov 2, 2019.

  1. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    Awesome release, I wasn't counting on finding any Sonic Chaos prototypes with the old sprites from the advertisements!
    Are we getting the "real" (individual) ROM dumps of those too? I know the combined images are more convenient for regular emulators but still, the actual dumps would be nice to have documented and preserved in MAME.
     
  2. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

    Member
    547
    7
    18
    Curious how in the GG proto, Mecha Green Hill Zone uses the original SMS colors in both GG prototypes, while Sleeping Egg Zone uses the MGHZ tiles and a palette closer to the final MGHZ GG.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
  3. Vertekins

    Vertekins

    Sonic Aficionado Member
    28
    9
    3
    The Midlands of England, UK
    Just translating whatever Japanese Sonic info I find that intrigues me. Also, working on Concept Mobius.
    Well I'll be

    [​IMG]

    Those unusually-shaped rings from an early magazine screenshot are present in special stages.

    Also, a fancy crystal pillar not seen in final;

    [​IMG]

    And a small observation but to my memory, bubble clusters aren't in the final version oddly enough but they are so here. In final, tiny bubbles and breatheable bubbles just rise from the ground, not from a cluster.

    [​IMG]

    In addition, I made a gif of Tails' animations unique to that first prototype. You can really see how they were copying his Sonic 2 idle animation;

    [​IMG]
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  4. Multi Battler

    Multi Battler

    puniboy 4 president Member
    A numbered sequel it is, then. Now that I think about it, they share some common elements. Were the similarities intentional? Aspect went into a completely different direction for "Sonic 3". That's for sure.

    I have never understood the difference between the Game Gear and the Master System versions. At least contentwise.
     
  5. kazblox

    kazblox

    Member
    151
    2
    18
    Diassemblies and decompilations.
    Assuming we're talking about "final versions", imagine the Master System release as if it were a "release candidate" of the game. Both the 8-bit versions of Sonic 1 and 2, along with Chaos, were being done in mind of both the Master System and the Game Gear. (Master System demand was key in regards to Western countries that still carried the product, all with decent sales.) I'll take a guess that their codebases had #IFDEF MS/GG tags.
    I presume that because the demand for Master System versions were critical, the codebase would be duplicated when the game was "finished enough", and this duplicate would be used for the working on the final Master System version and all it's bugfixes. The Game Gear version would be further worked on in the original copy, with time to spare.

    This presumption helps explain Master System Sonic 2 REV01, built months after REV00 and the Game Gear version, doing nothing to bring the game up to date with the Game Gear version itself.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • List
  6. Vertekins

    Vertekins

    Sonic Aficionado Member
    28
    9
    3
    The Midlands of England, UK
    Just translating whatever Japanese Sonic info I find that intrigues me. Also, working on Concept Mobius.
    I recorded the completely different early level themes for Aqua Planet, Sleeping Egg and Electric Egg. Electric Egg's theme is very similar to final's opening sequence theme (Master System Version) and the one used for act 3.

    Aqua Planet early theme
    Sleeping Egg early theme
    Electric Egg early theme

    Is it odd that I get a very Mega Man'ish vibe from Aqua Planet and Sleeping Egg?
     
  7. kazblox

    kazblox

    Member
    151
    2
    18
    Diassemblies and decompilations.
    Also, unused minecart sprites in the May 17th build.
    Additionally, the signpost art is somehow duplicated in the July 13th build. Not sure if any of the final builds of the game do that as well.

    EDIT:
    For the Master System version, as I can infer from the May 17th build (#IFDEF GG, but still carrying over details from the Master System IFDEF), they originally showed the act you passed. The screen also does a few swipes.
    You see both happen in the Game Gear version (with a very similar font for the act number), but never in any of the Master System builds we have.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
  8. Vertekins

    Vertekins

    Sonic Aficionado Member
    28
    9
    3
    The Midlands of England, UK
    Just translating whatever Japanese Sonic info I find that intrigues me. Also, working on Concept Mobius.
    Tiny detail but Kamado MAX has a sprite frame which shows it looking to the side.

    [​IMG]

    It doesn't do that in the final version.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • List
  9. RyogaMasaki

    RyogaMasaki

    0xffffffff Oldbie
    Seconding this. drx and company, you've all done a fantastic job with the proper Redump process disc dumps. We should have the same standards with ROM media as well.
     
  10. kazblox

    kazblox

    Member
    151
    2
    18
    Diassemblies and decompilations.
    Want to hear strange things? Set memory address $1E04 (sound driver, current sound ID) to $9B for the June 30th prototype, and $9C for the July 13th prototype.
    On another note, a very close iteration of the music that made it's way into the final versions of Electric Egg Acts 1 and 2 can be heard in the July 13th prototype. Set $95 at the same address as I mentioned before.
    Also set $8F if you want to hear what looks to be the Special Stage song from the final Master System version.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
  11. SGR

    SGR

    Give me the gams. Member
    https://gist.github.com/pixopoxo/12a520225ae0a2c0bbdf051f9d065866
    https://gist.github.com/pixopoxo/8aa798a7132d93338621cf2f6afd247e
    https://gist.github.com/pixopoxo/3170c088fe0401e75b19221c326e6e28

    Been trying to document these as best I can. Any suggestions, additions, or corrections appreciated or welcomed.

    @kazblox thanks for that RAM address! I found a few things with it. Like this: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/637490570964500496/640421939948814366/eez_near_final.mp3

    (Nice to see some of the good ol' boys posting in here!)
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
  12. Glaber

    Glaber

    Has Beaten Sonic Genesis for GBA Oldbie
    Regarding the Streams, why did you not try to collect 100 rings in any of the stages? in the final builds this was how you entered the Special Stages.
     
  13. drx

    drx

    mfw Researcher
    2,225
    191
    43
    :rolleyes:
    I'd thought about but I didn't think people would want the raw dumps. Here they are, added them to the article as well:
    https://hiddenpalace.org/w/images/1/13/Sonic_Chaos_(May_17,_1993_prototype)_(Raw).zip
    https://hiddenpalace.org/w/images/6/6f/Sonic_Chaos_(Jun_30,_1993_prototype)_(Raw).zip
    https://hiddenpalace.org/w/images/2/20/Sonic_Chaos_(Jul_13,_1993_prototype)_(Raw).zip
     
  14. 19XX

    19XX

    Member
    30
    5
    8
    Thank you, drx. I love Sonic Chaos.
    And now we know it had a working title, Sonic 3.

    Maybe there was a cancelled Triple Trouble for SMS. I was thinking about that possibility.
     
  15. SanicDerpy

    SanicDerpy

    Member
    21
    2
    3
    ???
    SMPS2MID & MID2SMPS Conversions and learning to draw.
    Big thanks for finding these prototypes, I also like Sonic Chaos.

    I'm pretty sure this is been questioned already but, I wonder if the unused Tails special stages exist in any of these builds? (I saw them on the Sonic Chaos development page, they could be on earlier builds than the ones were found.)

    If you want proof here is the image: http://info.sonicretro.org/File:Sc_TailsBonus.jpg
     
  16. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

    Fifty paces towards the sun, cooking beets. Wiki Sysop
    5,129
    41
    28
    Northumberland, England
    The soil knows all.
    [​IMG]
    Hello there, what's your name?

    Interesting set of prototypes. Well done again!
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  17. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

    I'll find the old avatar eventually Member
    12,184
    14
    18
    Working on my art!
    I think I prefer the beta sprites overall oddly enough. They're like a mix of Sonic 2/3s sprites and the spikes look better. I wonder why they changed things?

    Also interesting how the early beta is referred to as both Sonic Chaos and Sonic and Tails, I'm surprised the distinction was set that early on.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
  18. SGR

    SGR

    Give me the gams. Member
    Hey guys, this was pointed out.


    Go to 54 seconds here.


    Go to 32 seconds here.

    So uh... were the composers plagiarists? :P

    In all seriousness, though, this is kinda strange. I hate to be all "My theory is," but, I think that the composer(s) had a cover of I'm About You made for the SN76489 and inserted it in as a placeholder track.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  19. XRick

    XRick

    Member
    Was it common practice, back in the day?
     
  20. Lurker

    Lurker

    no Member
    30
    2
    8
    And that just happens to be the best part in my opinion