Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by drx, Nov 16, 2019.
Is it the special stage planet?
The glitch in Sonic 3 final in the HCZ act 1 boss makes a lot more sense now. Why did the S3 final mid boss music get replaced with the "replacement" track in S&K if you started to drown and jumped out of the water? Because that glitch defaulted the music back to the original song which was the one used in S&K.
Amazing how we've been completely wrong for over 23 years about Sonic 3s history. Now I have questions. Why was the non Michael Jackson from Sonic 3 changed in S&K (title screen, 1 up, Knuckles to something else) and where did the PC team get these songs from? The drop dash is in this game, did Taxman and Stealth know about this or was it an odd coincidence (and why was it removed?).
This is mind boggling.
Also are you telling me if they just kept this music Sonic 3 wouldn't be locked away forever? Fuck off Sega.
And final note... anyone else think a proper palette version of this title screen Sonic would look better than the final version?
Had to go back and find the posts where I brought the SEGA Mag preview up then GagaMan followed up with the goods. Who would have guessed this would actually surface?
Ahh yeah, I think you're right.
In the stream the Hydrocity Zone Act 1 boss played Act 2 boss music, so there was still something weird going on.
Yeah, special stage planet looks just like that in VRAM
wrt the lack of Sonic 3 rerelease, this should be given a read
It's very possible that:
a) Sega feels that changing several pieces of music, even for legal reasons, will cause backlash they'd rather avoid. Music has always been a core part of Sonic's identity. Imagine if they rereleased SA2 without City escape :P
b) Sega has promised to not rerelease Sonic 3 again *period* as part of a legal settlement. This would be an extreme compromise, but I can see why MJ's legal estate or whoever is suing them would desire that when Sega used MJ's music and then deny ever doing so
c) The music scandals for Sonic 3 run deeper than MJ. Cirocco Jones says "Sega owes people a lot of money"...perhaps Sega wasn't paying their employees? Who knows
The idea of Sega promising to never re-release Sonic 3 ever again - until the end of the earth itself - is a ridiculous idea.
Regarding the Drop Dash, Christian Whitehead says: https://twitter.com/CFWhitehead/status/1195869039454633985
oh I must have missed that part, that's cool
"Uncanny coincidence". I don't buy it. Look, I'm under an NDA too from a different company, I get not revealing secrets, even seemingly innocuous ones. But this is too similar not to have been pulled out of thin air.
I missed the damn stream and I just had a feeling we were getting the Sonic 3 prototype with the Sonic 2 sprites and I was right! I've been playing the prototype for a good hour almost now, and damn I can't believe the PC music was originally the music that was going to be used! Honestly though, I prefer ICZ, and CNZ's final Sonic 3 music over this. Thank god the horrible mini boss theme from the final version isn't present though! xD The PSG is quite glitchy though at times, my god my ears were hurting whenever the jump sound effect would stick.
I just checked the code for the "drop dash".
It's not a bug. It's deliberately put in.
ROM:0000B61C Sonic_Jump: ; CODE XREF: ROM:0000AE84p
ROM:0000B61C move.b ($FFF603).w,d0
ROM:0000B620 andi.b #$70,d0 ; 'p'
ROM:0000B624 beq.w locret_B6F0
ROM:0000B628 move.b ($FFF602).w,d0
ROM:0000B62C andi.b #$D,d0
ROM:0000B630 cmpi.b #1,d0
ROM:0000B634 bne.s loc_B63C
ROM:0000B636 move.w #$FFFF,($FFFE5A).w
ROM:0000B63C loc_B63C: ; CODE XREF: Sonic_Jump+18j
ROM:0000BFF2 loc_BFF2: ; CODE XREF: Sonic_ResetOnFloor+74j
ROM:0000BFF2 tst.w ($FFFE5A).w
ROM:0000BFF6 beq.s locret_C00E
ROM:0000BFF8 bmi.s loc_C010
ROM:0000BFFA asr $1C(a0)
ROM:0000BFFE asr $18(a0)
ROM:0000C002 move.w #0,$1A(a0)
ROM:0000C008 move.w #0,($FFFE5A).w
ROM:0000C00E locret_C00E: ; CODE XREF: Sonic_ResetOnFloor+80j
ROM:0000C010 ; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
ROM:0000C010 loc_C010: ; CODE XREF: Sonic_ResetOnFloor+82j
ROM:0000C010 move.w #0,$1A(a0)
ROM:0000C016 move.w #0,($FFFE5A).w
ROM:0000C01C bsr.w sub_ACEC
ROM:0000C020 move.b #9,$20(a0)
ROM:0000C026 move.w #$3C,d0 ; '<'
ROM:0000C02A jsr (PlaySound).l
ROM:0000C030 move.b #1,$3D(a0)
ROM:0000C036 move.w #0,$3E(a0)
Basically, if you are holding up, but not left or right as soon as you jump, it sets a flag to -1. Later in Sonic_ResetOnFloor, it checks that flag. For when it's negative, it goes to loc_C010, where it sets Sonic up to spindash, in which if you are not holding down, it will act as a "drop dash" and boost Sonic as he touches the floor. If you do start holding down after doing the Up + Jump thing, Sonic will start spindashing when he touches the floor.
Interestingly enough, if said flag is a nonzero positive number, it seems to just halve Sonic's X speed.
I mean tbf, the move makes sense for Sonic's move set. I'd believe it being a coincidence or not.
Well this at least partially puts into contention the theory some people have that the only reason the MJ tracks were removed from S&KC only because of the samples.
Also makes Sega's avoidance at officially stating anything about his involvement make a lot more sense if they had ready-made, hassle-free replacement tracks ready but they chose to go with the MJ tracks anyway.
I wonder if the Credits Screen exists in this build? If it doesn't use Strangers in Moscow it would mean they have replacements for all of the contentious tracks.
^ there appears to be a credits theme in this build completely different than anything that was ever used. So at this point none of MJs music seems to have existed. Seems weird how late it was implemented.
How dare you but I really do like this versions CNZ but I love the finals. I'm very torn.
Just to let people know for those looking for SMPSPlay versions of the tracks, ValleyBell has been given the music offsets to use and may have something sorted by tomorrow. No guarantee though, but they are getting looked into.
OOOOH YES YES YES YES
This is GRAND!!!
What an excellent find / release. And not only that, but what is great is seeing a lot of old community members come out of the woods to comment in this thread.
I'm part way watching the release play through and it's really fascinating. CNZ Sounds pretty good, almost elements of Spring Stadium from Sonic 3D seeping through.
The whole MJ music story saga gets another Chapter it seems. Also very exciting, though I understand completely Saxman's take on it all too.
As for those calling for the remakes to happen moreso now because of this release; I have to disagree. If it's going to happen, I'll believe it when I see it, but I just can't see what has changed from SEGA's point of view for them to now permit.
Not familiar with this, mind filling me in?
EDIT: Nevermind, I found his post. Got buried in the mass of responses to this thread.
Separate names with a comma.