Sonic Month 2019: Sonic 3

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by drx, Nov 16, 2019.

  1. Hivebrain

    Hivebrain

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    Is it the special stage planet?
     
  2. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    The glitch in Sonic 3 final in the HCZ act 1 boss makes a lot more sense now. Why did the S3 final mid boss music get replaced with the "replacement" track in S&K if you started to drown and jumped out of the water? Because that glitch defaulted the music back to the original song which was the one used in S&K.

    Amazing how we've been completely wrong for over 23 years about Sonic 3s history. Now I have questions. Why was the non Michael Jackson from Sonic 3 changed in S&K (title screen, 1 up, Knuckles to something else) and where did the PC team get these songs from? The drop dash is in this game, did Taxman and Stealth know about this or was it an odd coincidence (and why was it removed?).

    This is mind boggling.

    Also are you telling me if they just kept this music Sonic 3 wouldn't be locked away forever? Fuck off Sega.

    And final note... anyone else think a proper palette version of this title screen Sonic would look better than the final version?
     
  3. Xilla

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  4. Rika Chou

    Rika Chou

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    Ahh yeah, I think you're right.
     
  5. Pengi

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    In the stream the Hydrocity Zone Act 1 boss played Act 2 boss music, so there was still something weird going on.
     
  6. InvisibleUp

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    Yeah, special stage planet looks just like that in VRAM

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Taylor

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    wrt the lack of Sonic 3 rerelease, this should be given a read

    It's very possible that:

    a) Sega feels that changing several pieces of music, even for legal reasons, will cause backlash they'd rather avoid. Music has always been a core part of Sonic's identity. Imagine if they rereleased SA2 without City escape :P

    b) Sega has promised to not rerelease Sonic 3 again *period* as part of a legal settlement. This would be an extreme compromise, but I can see why MJ's legal estate or whoever is suing them would desire that when Sega used MJ's music and then deny ever doing so

    c) The music scandals for Sonic 3 run deeper than MJ. Cirocco Jones says "Sega owes people a lot of money"...perhaps Sega wasn't paying their employees? Who knows
     
  8. Turbohog

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    The idea of Sega promising to never re-release Sonic 3 ever again - until the end of the earth itself - is a ridiculous idea.
     
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  9. Pengi

    Pengi

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  10. Diablohead

    Diablohead

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    oh I must have missed that part, that's cool
     
  11. Blastfrog

    Blastfrog

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    "Uncanny coincidence". I don't buy it. Look, I'm under an NDA too from a different company, I get not revealing secrets, even seemingly innocuous ones. But this is too similar not to have been pulled out of thin air.
     
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  12. Ravenfreak

    Ravenfreak

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    I missed the damn stream and I just had a feeling we were getting the Sonic 3 prototype with the Sonic 2 sprites and I was right! I've been playing the prototype for a good hour almost now, and damn I can't believe the PC music was originally the music that was going to be used! Honestly though, I prefer ICZ, and CNZ's final Sonic 3 music over this. Thank god the horrible mini boss theme from the final version isn't present though! xD The PSG is quite glitchy though at times, my god my ears were hurting whenever the jump sound effect would stick. :V
     
  13. Ralakimus

    Ralakimus

    "I want to die alone tonight~" Tech Member
    I just checked the code for the "drop dash".

    It's not a bug. It's deliberately put in.

    Code (Text):
    1. ROM:0000B61C Sonic_Jump:                             ; CODE XREF: ROM:0000AE84p
    2. ROM:0000B61C                 move.b  ($FFF603).w,d0
    3. ROM:0000B620                 andi.b  #$70,d0 ; 'p'
    4. ROM:0000B624                 beq.w   locret_B6F0
    5. ROM:0000B628                 move.b  ($FFF602).w,d0
    6. ROM:0000B62C                 andi.b  #$D,d0
    7. ROM:0000B630                 cmpi.b  #1,d0
    8. ROM:0000B634                 bne.s   loc_B63C
    9. ROM:0000B636                 move.w  #$FFFF,($FFFE5A).w
    10. ROM:0000B63C
    11. ROM:0000B63C loc_B63C:                               ; CODE XREF: Sonic_Jump+18j

    in Sonic_ResetOnFloor
    Code (Text):
    1. ROM:0000BFF2 loc_BFF2:                               ; CODE XREF: Sonic_ResetOnFloor+74j
    2. ROM:0000BFF2                 tst.w   ($FFFE5A).w
    3. ROM:0000BFF6                 beq.s   locret_C00E
    4. ROM:0000BFF8                 bmi.s   loc_C010
    5. ROM:0000BFFA                 asr     $1C(a0)
    6. ROM:0000BFFE                 asr     $18(a0)
    7. ROM:0000C002                 move.w  #0,$1A(a0)
    8. ROM:0000C008                 move.w  #0,($FFFE5A).w
    9. ROM:0000C00E
    10. ROM:0000C00E locret_C00E:                            ; CODE XREF: Sonic_ResetOnFloor+80j
    11. ROM:0000C00E                 rts
    12. ROM:0000C010 ; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    13. ROM:0000C010
    14. ROM:0000C010 loc_C010:                               ; CODE XREF: Sonic_ResetOnFloor+82j
    15. ROM:0000C010                 move.w  #0,$1A(a0)
    16. ROM:0000C016                 move.w  #0,($FFFE5A).w
    17. ROM:0000C01C                 bsr.w   sub_ACEC
    18. ROM:0000C020                 move.b  #9,$20(a0)
    19. ROM:0000C026                 move.w  #$3C,d0 ; '<'
    20. ROM:0000C02A                 jsr     (PlaySound).l
    21. ROM:0000C030                 move.b  #1,$3D(a0)
    22. ROM:0000C036                 move.w  #0,$3E(a0)
    23. ROM:0000C03C                 rts

    Basically, if you are holding up, but not left or right as soon as you jump, it sets a flag to -1. Later in Sonic_ResetOnFloor, it checks that flag. For when it's negative, it goes to loc_C010, where it sets Sonic up to spindash, in which if you are not holding down, it will act as a "drop dash" and boost Sonic as he touches the floor. If you do start holding down after doing the Up + Jump thing, Sonic will start spindashing when he touches the floor.

    Interestingly enough, if said flag is a nonzero positive number, it seems to just halve Sonic's X speed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
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  14. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    I mean tbf, the move makes sense for Sonic's move set. I'd believe it being a coincidence or not.
     
  15. TheKazeblade

    TheKazeblade

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    Well this at least partially puts into contention the theory some people have that the only reason the MJ tracks were removed from S&KC only because of the samples.

    Also makes Sega's avoidance at officially stating anything about his involvement make a lot more sense if they had ready-made, hassle-free replacement tracks ready but they chose to go with the MJ tracks anyway.

    I wonder if the Credits Screen exists in this build? If it doesn't use Strangers in Moscow it would mean they have replacements for all of the contentious tracks.
     
  16. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    ^ there appears to be a credits theme in this build completely different than anything that was ever used. So at this point none of MJs music seems to have existed. Seems weird how late it was implemented.
    How dare you :colbert: but I really do like this versions CNZ but I love the finals. I'm very torn.
     
  17. Spanner

    Spanner

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    Just to let people know for those looking for SMPSPlay versions of the tracks, ValleyBell has been given the music offsets to use and may have something sorted by tomorrow. No guarantee though, but they are getting looked into.
     
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  18. SyntaxTsu

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    OOOOH YES YES YES YES
    This is GRAND!!!
     
  19. Narstyle

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    What an excellent find / release. And not only that, but what is great is seeing a lot of old community members come out of the woods to comment in this thread.

    I'm part way watching the release play through and it's really fascinating. CNZ Sounds pretty good, almost elements of Spring Stadium from Sonic 3D seeping through.

    The whole MJ music story saga gets another Chapter it seems. Also very exciting, though I understand completely Saxman's take on it all too.

    As for those calling for the remakes to happen moreso now because of this release; I have to disagree. If it's going to happen, I'll believe it when I see it, but I just can't see what has changed from SEGA's point of view for them to now permit.
     
  20. Blastfrog

    Blastfrog

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    Not familiar with this, mind filling me in?

    EDIT: Nevermind, I found his post. Got buried in the mass of responses to this thread.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019