Sonic Month 2019: Sonic 3

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by drx, Nov 16, 2019.

  1. Afro Thunder

    Afro Thunder

    Call Da Doctor! Member
    352
    3
    18
    NS, Canada
    Trying to get outta Dr. Dre mode, and actually release an album.
    Nah. The thing with Nakamura was that on top of owning most of the rights, Sega has to pay him extra if they use the Sonic 1&2 music for anything other than the original games (OST releases, remixes, etc.). Whether or not Sega had the foresight to work out a better deal with MJ in their favour, I don't know, but it was pretty much a non issue until his involvement with the games started going mainstream after his death, and his estate getting hip to the situation, but I don't think there'd be a problem with the music staying intact, unless the contracts stipulated whatever MJ and his team made remained 100% theirs, which I honestly doubt Sega would be THAT dumb to allow, or else Sonic 1 & 2 would be in a similar situation.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2019
  2. Hez

    Hez

    Asshole Oldbie
    3,119
    48
    28
    Hell
    Your mother
    Oh I don't disagree that its possible. I just don't think its likely in the gaming industry. They're well aware that they are more than likely going to be ported/moved/re-released down the road. It doesn't seem like a smart move to do.

    Then again....when has logic ever played a part in business decision making :V
     
  3. TheJart

    TheJart

    Member
    17
    1
    1
    Thing is Sonic 3 was rereleased after his death and is still available on steam and Xbox marketplace. I would say the music issues only effected remakes because of how the pc collection worked, but... Then there’s Sonic Jam...
     
  4. Frostav

    Frostav

    Member
    195
    23
    18
    What? No they probably weren't. We have countless stories of early game devs straight-up throwing away source code or overwriting it because no one cared about the future. No one thought these games would matter in 5 years, much less over two decades later. The industry focused relentlessly on just casually discarding everything old and only focusing on new stuff. That's why 2D games basically died the moment 3D was possible because people didn't give the slightest damn about good games, they wanted shitty 3D and they wanted it NOW and pfffffffttt who cares about that dated 2D garbage?! (until the people who played those games finally grew up and remembered their qualities and started the mid-2000's indie boom, that was) The idea of games as an artistic medium that should be preserved intact basically didn't exist until less than a decade ago.

    SEGA only licensing the music for the original Genesis run of S3&K because the idea of game preservation and re-releases was literally not even a thing to them at all is exactly what I'd expect a mid-90's gamedev/pub to do.

    These games weren't viewed as artistic works that should have been preserved years down the line. They were viewed in their time as toys. Very nice fancy toys with a lot of artistry involved, but the idea of that someone would care to play these ultimately disposable toys even, like, three years past their release date was literally, and I really mean literally, unthinkable.

    "Who on earth would give a shit about Sonic 3 once the Saturn released?"
    ^ almost certainly SEGA's view if you had asked them during development.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
  5. Shakidna

    Shakidna

    Rehash Rampage Member
    I want to point out that in Super Smash Bros the copyright for the Sonic 1 & 2 tracks is attributed solely to Nakamura, not SEGA, implying he owns 100% of the music.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • List
  6. Lurker

    Lurker

    sleep Member
    33
    2
    8
    It could also be that Sega Saturn was included in the deal since it was released one month after Sonic & Knuckles (nov 1994 jap compared to oct). Who knows
     
  7. Zaracoatl

    Zaracoatl

    Member
    5
    0
    1
    Sonic Collection was also released on the Nintendo DS in 2010 with Sonic 3 and the original music. I have always wondered how they were able to release that one as well as the Steam version. The fact that the Steam and Xbox Live versions never got delisted due to license agreement was also weird.
     
  8. TheOneAndOnlyJoebro64

    TheOneAndOnlyJoebro64

    I still need to play Heroes. Member
    236
    87
    28
    One thing that's odd about Sonic Classic Collection is that its version of Sonic & Knuckles uses the Sonic 3 music that was replaced (miniboss and Knuckles' theme), but Sonic 3 & Knuckles uses the Sonic & Knuckles music.
     
  9. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

    Arriving four years late. Member
    4,826
    34
    28
    Lincs, UK
    TurBoa, S1RL
    You've also got to remember that the Xbox One versions, despite being BC 360 versions, are legally re-releases.
     
  10. The Other RaFaél

    The Other RaFaél

    I'm just a guy and a man and a dude and I'm hungry Oldbie
    21
    6
    3
    Detroit
    Fatherhood, husband...hood and a few mobile apps.
    I've always found that rather peculiar myself. Though I've always sort of just blamed it on human error; quite a few alterations were made to these games for Sonic Classic Collection, it's possible someone could've accidentally broke something without realizing it (or maybe someone did catch it, but left it alone because they figured few would notice/remember how it originally was.).
     
  11. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

    Member
    4,695
    17
    18
    Yeah, the thing about Classic Collection is that it actually used separate music instead of emulated music. Therefore any voice samples (such as the S3 miniboss) are noticeably higher quality than in the originals or other emulations. I'd also chalk it up to human error. Classic Collection is a pretty cheap and nasty title.
     
    • Informative Informative x 4
    • List
  12. SyntaxTsu

    SyntaxTsu

    Member
    74
    16
    8
    These discoveries do make me wonder if somewhere out there, another prototype of Sonic 3 exists... I suspect if it did, it’d be later than the october/november prototype, probably the prototype here: https://info.sonicretro.org/File:S3_AngelIsland3.jpg

    Knuckles cutscene is complete, but the HUD colours are still overwritten and Sonic’s colours still fade out as if they are using the Sonic 2 colour palette. Probably a beta build, but if we’re lucky there could be some interesting reminants and layout changes in there.

    Also probably the same build where this existed: https://info.sonicretro.org/File:Sonic3_MD_Development_ICZ_01.jpg
     
  13. Soni the Hedgehog project

    Soni the Hedgehog project

    Drill Eggman Member
    7
    0
    1
    Sonic 1: S2 Version
    Hahaha- there is.
    However it's almost the exact same as the final game.
    But, i'm sure there could be more actual prototypes and not just final games without header memos.
     
  14. Even down to the music? I am curious about figuring out a proto-timeline that at least shows the progression from "pre-Buxer music" to "Buxer music", and how far along the game itself was when said music was implemented.
     
  15. Inferno

    Inferno

    Member
    9
    3
    3
    Sonic 1 Definitive
    We have a far later proto. It's the exact same, excluding the header, IIRC.
     
  16. SyntaxTsu

    SyntaxTsu

    Member
    74
    16
    8
    Well, between that and the October/November proto would be the main thing to look for, really. I doubt that there are any prototypes earlier than that in existence anymore, and anything later would fall under Sonic 3C - which, mind you, would still be interesting, considering it could provide some of the earlier renditions of MHZ, SOZ, SSZ and DEZ.
     
  17. SystemsReady

    SystemsReady

    I Have No Idea What I'm Doing At Any Given Moment Member
    321
    37
    28
    The Twin Cities
    trying to not fall asleep while writing Selenium tests
    I really would like a Nick Arcade-ish or Simon Wai-ish proto for Sonic 3, but given that it wasn't exactly sent out to game shows or whatever in that manner, chances are slim.
     
  18. Soni the Hedgehog project

    Soni the Hedgehog project

    Drill Eggman Member
    7
    0
    1
    Sonic 1: S2 Version
    Yep.
    Even down to the music
    It says the header memo is the only major change so there might be some minor changes i don't know about

    Already said that.

    Was planning to make a fake Sonic 3 Nick Arcade video with this prototype, haha.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2020
  19. Wafer

    Wafer

    owner of "objectively bad opinions" Member
    189
    55
    28
    Disassembling n00bs, WIP
    You could've posted one reply instead of 3. And this bit right here...
    ... is really unnecessary. Nobody's keeping score.
     
  20. Soni the Hedgehog project

    Soni the Hedgehog project

    Drill Eggman Member
    7
    0
    1
    Sonic 1: S2 Version
    Actually i was gonna combine all the replies to one comment but i couldn't find delete comment.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List