Sonic Month 2019: Sonic 3

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by drx, Nov 16, 2019.

  1. iGamr

    iGamr

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    I'm about a week late saying this, but major thanks to everyone who made digging up this prototype possible. It's been a real treat seeing all of the discoveries and analyses since the reveal, especially since 3&K's easily my favorite of the Genesis titles. + - Take that, Sonic 2. You aren't the only one with cool betas anymore. :V  
    Just adding to this since I haven't seen it mentioned, it looks like this applies to the fire shield as well.
     
  2. Pengi

    Pengi

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    Also, in the Sonic Jam version the level select code can just be entered on the title screen, with no specific timing.
     
  3. SystemsReady

    SystemsReady

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    Actually now that you mentioned it...do you reckon there's something up with Tails' end of act pose? Something that has always bugged me is how "small" is tails are in the rotation sprites - but comparing all of them in this post, it is actually that his end of act pose just has huge tails.
     
  4. That One Jig

    That One Jig

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    Yeah, those are definitely different in his flying sprites. A funny thing about them is his right hand. It's the same as it is in Sonic 2, but part of it's been deleted. I guess it was so important to see a few extra pixels of his left shoe that they had to amputate the poor guy's right pinky finger!

    I hesitated to make any other comparisons between the altered style sprites in his S3K set and his general sprites. Things like his shoes and hands vary in sizes from animation to animation. Some of those sprites even look to be borrowing a bit from his S2 artwork still.

    Since you'll usually be doing typical platforming stuff in the game instead of rotating in circles, most of the time Tails will have big tails. All of his basic sprites (standing, walking, running, jumping/rolling, spin dash, etc.) use these larger tails. The smaller ones are the ones that stand out like a sore thumb, you just tend to not look at them long enough to really care.

    His end-of-act pose actually borrows his tails from part of the animation of his standing sprite:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    ...

    A bit more on topic, but related: Does the prototype have any updated sprites for Tails in it? Or are they all just his S2 sprites?
     
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  5. Ralakimus

    Ralakimus

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    Just his Sonic 2 sprites.
     
  6. That One Jig

    That One Jig

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    Figures. The mahogany outline/dark shading on his fur is still there in the prototype, as is the bounce in his step when walking. I guess they really didn't change anything with him yet outside of update the palette.
     
  7. Hez

    Hez

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    I have a hunch his flying sprites have a clue into his redesign. Them, and a select few other, have a different style of head.
     
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  8. z.man II

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    https://i.imgur.com/a/8sc723E.jpg

    Tails’s ending screen sprite looks very different from the one used during regular gameplay...he’s got the same head design as his flying sprite, with the bigger ears, smaller eyes and head shine. His right shoe also faces the screen like Sonic’s does in this game.
     
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  9. Alexbt

    Alexbt

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    Any further thoughts on the build date though? The 2p mode theory allows for a build with a close to final date with components that are further away from completion. It just seems like there's so much left to be done for it to have been finished on 11/20 if this is from 11/03.
     
  10. HP Zoner

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    Yes, same with the continue animation and pretty much anything that wasn't already in Sonic 2. It looks like they prioritized the new animations and postponed updating the old ones to save time, but never got around to it. So Tails's sprite actually has two different designs (which has always bugged me):

    https://www.spriters-resource.com/fullview/55419/

    This does extend to things they had to add frames to. Flying is a good example, since they had to make him look tired after a while, and that wasn't in Sonic 2 (and neither was swimming, which is based on the flying animation).

    The continue screen is a more interesting case. Although Tails still tries to pull Sonic into action, Sonic is no longer using his old leaning back animation, and instead turns his back to the player. If they hadn't updated Tails's continue animation, he would have been looking at Sonic's ass:

    [​IMG]
     
  11. kazblox

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    Burn dates are not always build dates! Keep this in mind.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
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  12. Dissent

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    So I'm not seeing this documented anywhere or even in this thread but if you hold Up before jumping and then hold Down while falling (with or without jump) you will drop in to a charging spindash. It should probably be added to the various research pages. Here's a vid;

    ICEKnight says that drx had found it and commented on it before also, so I didn't find it first.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
  13. Fred

    Fred

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    Sonic 3 Unlocked
     
  14. Kamek

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    I never thought I'd see a Sonic 3 prototype like this; when the 3C protos were dumped I assumed that was all we'd ever see. In fact I thought this was a hoax or an out-of-season April fools joke at first! Major props and kudos to drx and the community for tracking this down and releasing it. The more we find out about Sonic 3's development, the more questions arise, but I enjoy seeing the gaps filled in and the story of S3's development becoming just a bit more complete.
     
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  15. Shakidna

    Shakidna

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    The prototype music made me realize that Chrome Gadget's backing melody is way too loud in the final.
     
  16. Fred

    Fred

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    I did a thing

     
  17. Hez

    Hez

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    Those top two are just his S2 sprites with the extra shade of orange removed and a bit of correction.

    I actually think you might be on to something with this end sprites. I have a few theories to what might have happened. Either the new sprites looked awful, or they didn't have time to complete the full sheet so just went with the recolored Sonic 2 sprites. I'll explain below as to why I think one was at least started with a really shitty picture I took 2 minutes on.

    [​IMG]

    So line one you have just your regular Sonic 2 Tails sprite next to Sonic 3. You'll see that an orange shade was removed to make up for Sonic 3's player palette.

    Line two, we have both flying sprites from each game respectively. You'll see that the Tails sprite from Sonic 3 was completely overhauled. In a VERY similar fashion to Knuckles, might I add (New head placed over the old sprite, then touched up.

    Line three is of the variants of his ending, and game over screen. Here again you see that they match up pretty close to his flying sprites. Making me lean towards the redesign having a new set of animated tails, and overall redesign to match Sonic.

    Line 4 however, makes me think differently. These frames are both taken at the exact time. Notice how Sonics matches up almost completely with his standing sprite. ALSO, its separate from his standing sprite. Which brings me to either A) they didn't plan on it being his standing sprite, or B) Lazyness. Probably B. It also isn't as touched up as his final. Which then we get to the same frame in tails rotating sprite. Its a clearly different head design, which is weird why they wouldn't just use his normal standing sprite with some smaller tails thrown in for consistency. But given that a lack of time may have already been at play, they likely just threw back in the Sonic 2 sprites and added what was done of his new Sonic 3 sprite to fill in the gaps.

    Line 5 are both their gripping a bar sprite. Notice again how Sonics head matches the head in Line 4. Meaning it came from a full sheet that was Sonic 3 styled. Also notice how Tails sprite matches the style in Line 4. Leaning me more towards that was at least his redesign before cleanup.

    Line 6 you'll see the same head yet again on Tails. This is the odd ball, because Sonic's matching sprite in his Sonic 3 sheet is different. This is either because they went away from the Sonic 1/2's 5 frames to the Sonic 3's 8 frame floating sprite. But despite whatever reason, its a different head. Or is it? I forgot to picture it, BUT this head matches up more closely, albeit heavily edited, to his Sonic 2's floating frame. So is the "new head" a complete coincidence? I might add its more heavily edited than your typical Sonic 2 to Sonic 3 sprite.

    Line 7 is my interpretation of what his standing frame may have been in Sonic 3, had they finished the sprite sheet. I lean towards the fourth Tails in that line may have been what was intended. However, I could also see it being the third sprite, and canning it due to how awkward the tiny tails looked. They likely played with this idea to save time on spriting his tails and having to deal with that code, but in the end chose the visually pleasing path opposed to easy.
     
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  18. SystemsReady

    SystemsReady

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    hey why on earth is the backing melody for FBZ Act 2 in tune for THIS early version but not for the final? who the hell messed that up?
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
  19. Naean

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    I'm assuming that you mean FBZ?
     
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  20. SystemsReady

    SystemsReady

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    yes this is why I hate both using the abbreviations and reading them :V

    kind of strange how Hydrocity and Marble Garden are basically identical to their final versions. Same with sandopolis and lava reef as well. It's a strange mixed bag of things that are "basically done", "needs tweaks", and "changed entirely", when I'm used to things like the Sonic 2 early protos where basically EVERYTHING is different musically in ways that are immediately noticeable (be it tempo differences or programming differences).