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Sonic Month 2019: Sonic 3

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by drx, Nov 16, 2019.

  1. FireRat


    Nah. Fuck it. Banned
    Mobius Evolution 2
    I don't think the model is too different from the title screen's. But don't forget, it's CGI, you can change lighting, zoom, camera angle... latter two are just a mere clicks away, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's just a different take of the same model
  2. Prototype


    I'm not sure where I should post this now since there are two threads, one here and one in Reverse Engineering, but this thread seems to get more traffic so apologies for the double post. I will refrain in future if it annoys anyone.

    When trying to force load an unfinished level slot, you tend to get garbage data for the BG but with visible repeating chunks with associated collision data, indicating that it could be loading some kind of dummy test level collision data.

    Placing the weird Scaling Sprite object in AIZ also seemingly causes AIZ's collision data to change to this same set. The BG naturally goes all buggy, but I did notice that the repeating chunks ended up appearing semi-legibly for once suggesting that these repeating platform chunks were intended to use Tree Trunk and floor BG pieces. Collision works as you'd expect.

    Can't tell through the buggy mess whether the item layouts are intended to appear that way, but there are other object pieces that work. It contains rocks, springs, item boxes and rope swings so they might have been testing out a scenario where you swing from tree to tree.

    It feels like these are the remnants of some Treetop Jungle-type test zone. It would be lovely if anyone more versed in the inner workings of the game could figure this out.

    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
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  3. sonicthesnot


    Does anyone think the date on this version could be simply wrong? SEGA probably needed to have a final master copy of the game in December, and there are simply so many changes that would've needed to be made in less than one month. Either the whole team worked around the clock for a few weeks, or something is off here.

    Consider just the music. Assuming the date is correct, that would mean 6-7 of the original tracks were replaced, tons of tracks were polished off and edited, sound effects were tuned - that's a lot of work for a few weeks.
  4. plushifoxed


    that power is yet unknown Oldbie
    jazzy nyc
    puella magi chroma magica
    Some of you guys keep saying that it's impossible/improbable that S3 went from this buggy prototype to a final working build on such short notice...
    But the fact is that we know that with Sonic 2, they were working on and fixing majorly important features practically right up until the day they went gold. S2 went through more spit and polish in the week running up to RTM than it had for months prior.
    They were semi-regularly cutting it close. We know that for a fact. It's really not that implausible that Sonic 3 went through a similar situation.
    After all, the skeleton of the game is there. All the zones for the S3 side, almost all of the bosses, almost all the music... All it needs, just like with S2, is spit and polish.
  5. I don't really see a need to doubt the date. Aside from some art adjustments, the S3-base levels were pretty much complete. I'm no expert, but I don't think finalizing object placement, cutting out the S&K stages, and swapping some music around would've been too much to do in a single month. I mean... all the work in this build was done after mid-summer, right?
  6. RyogaMasaki


    0xffffffff Oldbie
  7. Neo Geo MVS

    Neo Geo MVS

    Giga Power Pro-Gear Spec Oldbie
    drx mentioned on the release page that the ROM headers are dated October 1993, so it's possible that the EPROMs were produced on November 3 using code from up to a month earlier.
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  8. Azookara


    yup Member
    There's also that idea mentioned earlier in the topic that it could've been a build made specifically by a division working solely on the 2P competition mode, which was using an older build of the game due to split development.

    It would explain why almost everything about it's maps are finished (including having variations on Sonic and Knuckles' final sprites) while the other stuff is still far behind.
  9. LockOnRommy11


    On the face of it the game seems largely complete when comparing it to the final Sonic 3, but there’s still a lot to do here.

    - Background art and data is garbled or needs replacing
    - Later sprites need implementing
    - Functions of certain set pieces in levels need changing or adjusting
    - Various collision data needs adjusting or reworking
    - The sound driver is incomplete
    - Links between levels needs implementing
    -Various cutscenes need alteration
    -Some level layouts require altering to match their final build
    - Art in general needs updating: title screen, various art throughout the game.
    -Player move sets have not been finalised and the insta-shield doesn’t appear to exist yet.
    -The final boss isn’t implemented.
    -Special Stages and bonus stages are incomplete or entirely absent.
    -The music is incomplete, especially S&K’s portion.

    That’s a lot to do with two months left surely? Also note that by the time S3 released, all of the S&K music was complete and in the rom. We’ve deduced that by the time of this build that they had very likely already split the two games, so why would they continue building the music for the S&K portion knowing that it wasn’t going to be used yet? My thoughts are that the music was already complete and that this was an even older build of the game, maybe a month or two prior.
  10. Liliam


    Were you expecting the sound engineers to drop what they were doing, roll up their sleeves, and start programming level transitions and drawing the new menu screens?
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  11. Blugenesi(Jarty)


    Wannabe Youtuber Member
    I’m in the boat that the early version is probably a version with completed multiplayer that wasn’t merged with the current version of what the rest of the team is working on. I gotta say i’m happy they didn’t introduce the drop dash with those controls though, it’s pretty unwieldy the way it was. Ring attack is neat too, I messed around with it. it’s a little hard to hit certain badniks with though, which is probably why it was cut. But thanks so much to Drx and the others for Sonic month. We may have not gotten the Sonic 1 proto from CES I wanted, but a real S3 proto is amazing too!
  12. Vinnie


    I must admit it's been a long time since I've had any involvement in the Sonic community. But just wanted to say a big thanks to all involved with bringing this and the other prototypes this month to light.

    The highlight for me is definitely that the PC music actually seems to have pre-dated the final Megadrive tracks. Would never have guessed this at the time but I had both versions and preferred their respective soundtrack in their own ways so it's great to hear the YM2612 renditions of these tracks.
  13. Crasher


    Why hello there! Member
    Building off of this, this was sourced from a copy that was sent to the SEGA Magazine UK, correct? Could this not be the last "stable" prototype they were confident sending out for some marketing purposes? Assuming that they had back ups, and were keeping track of when there were any major issues with each build, this could've been the best build to send (at the time), which could be used for screenshots of levels etc.

    This is, of course, speculation, but considering how the ROM headers were dated for then, and, from what I've seen, how it's almost playable from start to finish (transition issues aside, the latter of which is circumvented with the level select screen), I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.
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  14. Spanner


    The Tool Member
    Maybe one day we will get this later proto, which has the new sprites, and also note that the Ice Cap boss is using Act 1's palette.
    Who knows though, considering SEGA's hardcore secrecy on the game. These screenshots could have been picture slides, rather than EEPROMs.
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  15. LockOnRommy11


    I was thinking that with the amount of changes to tracks and the issues with the sound driver in this build, it would seem possible that they already had the tracks completed earlier than this but just couldn’t implement them yet.

    If this is indeed a build a month or two from release, knowing that the game was already split I can’t see the sound team focusing on the S&K stages music when they already had changes to make to the S3 soundtrack as more of a priority. I’d have at least thought that there would have been some minor differences between the tracks in S3 final and S&K if this had been a later build, but no - all the tracks from S&K in the S3 rom are exactly the same, save for the competition results screen theme which is slightly faster.

    This is purely speculative of course.
  16. Liliam


    Fair enough, but I don't understand why you're assuming they fixed up the S&K tracks before the S3 ones. We have two builds, one where none of the tracks are finished, and one where they all are. All that's clear is they had time to fix everything.

    Besides, we do have empyrical evidence that the S3 stages were given some priority: FBZ1 has incorrect looping even in the final; it was only fixed in S&K.
  17. Diablohead


    Indie dev Oldbie
    Near London
    The menu background could have been made before the title screen render was final, using an older model before it had some sort of tweaks to it like nose size and completed ears, i'd say the menu BG used a seperate render then just taking what they had for the title and cutting it up.
  18. Blastfrog


    See ya starside. Member
    I don't think anybody's taken the time yet to appreciate just how damn smooth and detailed this prototype animation is (mostly since people only have seen the sprite sheet and he goes by too fast in the game to get a good look at it). Look at the quills and tail, it's far better animated than the final's.

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  19. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

    Working on my art!
    Damn that is smooth. Also another detail, this Knuckles doesn't have the silver soles on his shoes like the final one does. So this definitely seems like a relic from when this game's sprites were based off Sonic 2's.

    I also like the lack of the grin and the lack of those weird white shine spots that always seemed arbitrarily placed on Knuckles' head.
  20. Malchik


    I can only assume they had to chop frames for memory conservation.