Sonic Month 2019: Sonic 3

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by drx, Nov 16, 2019.

  1. Aesculapius Piranha

    Aesculapius Piranha

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    So they got Michael Jackson for cheaper? I mean, even if that is the case there is clearly more to this story. Edit: Would be even more interesting if it was for a similar/comparable price to what DCT was asking.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
  2. You-Are-Pwned

    You-Are-Pwned

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    Here are some Pro Action Replay codes I made:

    Code (Text):
    1. FFFFFA:0100 - force Debug Mode
    2. FFFF0B:0002 - force Tails
    3.  
    4. 00039A:0004 - jump directly to Title Screen (on boot)
    5. 00039A:0028 - jump directly to Level Select (on boot)
    6. 00039A:0024 - jump directly to Sonic 2 Level Select (on boot)
    7.  
    8.  
    9.  
    10. These codes (used together) will go to Zone #xx and Act #yy if you choose ANY option on the level select screen:
    11. 005C38:4E71
    12. 005C3A:4E71
    13. FFFE10:xxyy
    14.  
    15.  
    16.  
    17. Change debug monitors:
    18. Angel Island 1 - 04B488:xx01
    19. Angel Island 2 - 04B5C0:xx01
    20. Hydrocity - 04B734:xx01
    21. Marble Garden - 04B952:xx01
    22. Carnival Night - 04BAB2:xx01
    23. Flying Battery - 04BC1C:xx01
    24. Ice Cap 1 - 04BC96:xx01
    25. Ice Cap 2 - 04BDEC:xx01
    26. Launch Base 1 - 04BF42:xx01
    27. Launch Base 2 - 04C0AC:xx01
    28. Mushroom Valley - 04C23E:xx01
    29. Sandopolis - 04C312:xx01
    30. Lava Reef/Hidden Palace - 04C364:xx01
    31. Sky Sanctuary/Death Egg 1 - 04C3D4:xx01
    32. Death Egg 2 - 04C426:xx01
    33. Doomsday - 04C478:xx01
    34. Get Blue Spheres - 04C4CA:xx01
    35. Gumball Machine/Glowing Spheres/Slot Machine - 04C922:xx01
    36.  
    37. Where "xx" is the type of monitor from this list:
    38.  
    39. 00 - Static (empty)
    40. 01 - 1UP
    41. 02 - Eggman
    42. 03 - 10 Rings
    43. 04 - Speed Shoes
    44. 05 - Fire Shield
    45. 06 - Electric Shield
    46. 07 - Bubble Shield
    47. 08 - Invincibility
    48. 09 - Super Sonic
    49. 0A - Broken
    And some useful codes by Chainspike:

    Code (Text):
    1. 04A8D0:46EE - Mushroom Valley 1 decompression fix (Part 1)
    2. 04A8D4:46EE - Mushroom Valley 1 decompression fix (Part 2)
    3. 04A8E8:46EE - Mushroom Valley 2 decompression fix (Part 1)
    4. 04A8EC:46EE - Mushroom Valley 2 decompression fix (Part 2)
    5. 04A930:46EE - Lava Reef 1 decompression fix (Part 1)
    6. 04A934:46EE - Lava Reef 1 decompression fix (Part 2)
    7. 04A948:46EE - Lava Reef 2 decompression fix (Part 1)
    8. 04A94C:46EE - Lava Reef 2 decompression fix (Part 2)
     
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  3. BlazeHedgehog

    BlazeHedgehog

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    DCT's second album ("Love Goes On"), released in 1989 and was the first one to top a million sales, something that continued with every album to follow. They were already pretty popular by the time Masato Nakamura was brought on for Sonic, though arguably, they did end up getting more popular from there. "Million Kisses", their album following Sonic 1, hit 2 million sales, and "Swinging Star", their post-Sonic 2 album, was once considered the best selling Japanese music album of all time.

    I do definitely buy in to the whole thing about Masato Nakamura's royalties being a thorn in Sega's side, though, considering they brought him out on stage to help announce Sonic Generations. Clearly contacting him about the use of his music was an important thing for them.
     
  4. T.Q.

    T.Q.

    The Sims 2, Tim Drake [Robin] Member
    I'm in the camp that the unused music was intended for Super Sonic's theme. The music does have that energetic/heroic vibe mentioned by others here in the thread.

    Given that Sonic 2 used a separate musical cue in its game, I would question why the dev team decided to just use the invincibility cue for both the transformation music and invincibility.

    Maybe one explanation was that it's a space saver to have one cue instead of two cues. This unused music wasn't in the Sonic 3 Genesis ROM, right?
     
  5. So on the topic of music similarities:

    Proto/PC Ice Cap is really similar to Crystal Egg from Sonic 2 (8 Bit)

    Proto/PC Launch Base is really similar to Chrome Gadget

    Proto/PC CNz is really similar to Hydrocity.

    The similarities are probably due to the tracks being composed by the same person, though.

    Btw, here's LBz2 with the loop fixed

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
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  6. SuperSonicRider

    SuperSonicRider

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    It's so confusing isn't it! But yeah the sound test slots (for main music at least, didn't look into SFX) on the PC version are the same as this prototype. Only difference is that sound slot DC in the PC version adds the credits medley from S&K (which is also consistent with where that song is in MD S&K/S3&K).

    Nah, in S3 final, that song was replaced with the S3 midboss music.

    EDIT: whoops, re: @SpeedStarTMQ, I apparently missed this bit:

     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
  7. Random Gaming

    Random Gaming

    Just a user on Sonic Retro Member
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    Sonic 1 Better Edition
    I’d really like to see the Sonic 3 equivalent of the S2 Nick Arcade Proto, just to see how the Sonic 3 development started.

    Also completely unrelated and I don’t know if anybody has mentioned this yet, but what happens if you plug this proto into Sonic & Knuckles?
     
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  8. BlazeHedgehog

    BlazeHedgehog

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    [​IMG]

    You get taken to a "No Way! No Way?!" screen like any other unrecognized game, which you can turn in to a Blue Spheres stage by pushing A+B+C.
     
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  9. muteKi

    muteKi

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    I would imagine only a little of the data is in the same location between this build and the final, meaning that trying to do lock-on shenanigans by pasting the Sonic 3 release header on top of this binary is probably just going to make it boot up into plain S&K.
     
  10. Soni the Hedgehog project

    Soni the Hedgehog project

    Drill Eggman Member
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    Sonic 1: S2 Version
    Man, finally a actual, good Sonic 3 prototype!
    I love this.
    I'm still hyped although it's out.
    I was excited to download it.
    And i found it provides extra stuff we never knew too!
    • Something similar to the Drop-Dash
    • Of course, different title that's identical enough
    • Knuckles' official Sonic 2 sprites! Yay!
    • I've always considered Sonic 3 an alternative to Sonic 2, so getting a beta like Sonic 2 is perfect!
    You're the best!
     
  11. Soni the Hedgehog project

    Soni the Hedgehog project

    Drill Eggman Member
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    Sonic 1: S2 Version
    "I’d really like to see the Sonic 3 equivalent of the S2 Nick Arcade Proto, just to see how the Sonic 3 development started."


    Same, i mentioned that in my above post.
    And if the game was finished by 1993, why didn't they release it in 1993? Sure, it's just the 6 levels completed, but who cares?
    Plus 2 things to top it off....
    The name Sonic 3 (SEGA Magazine UK prototype), just like how you did with your Sonic 2 Nick Arcade. But i don't care what you name it.
    and the beta mockup by Greg Martin (found at https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_3/Gallery#Box_artwork):
    [​IMG]
     
  12. RikohZX

    RikohZX

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    As numerous other posts have pointed out, production back then (and to a degree even today) takes a rather long while. The final build was sent on November 20th, meaning that the game took over two months to publish, burn the carts, and send out to retailers to properly stock them for sale.
     
  13. NeoFusionBox

    NeoFusionBox

    A.K.A. "Crimson Neo". Member
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    Sonic 3 & Knuckles: Pro Survivor and Sonic 1: Emerald Land (in hiatus)
    And this one here sounds like a Competion Mode track:


    So, maybe... they were all made by Jun Senoue? This one, CNZ and LBZ at least sounds was made by him.
     
  14. Toasty

    Toasty

    BulbaSAUR! Member
    This pretty much IS a Sonic & Knuckles prototype, considering they're the same game and share a lot of content. Lava Reef and Flying Battery are here, as well as some leftovers from the other levels. This is also without mentioning the fact that we already have a Sonic & Knuckles prototype.
     
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  15. Wafer

    Wafer

    18 months of trial posts to snark on your drivel Member
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    Please proofread your posts to make sure they actually make sense. Using full sentences would be a good start.
     
  16. Shoemanbundy

    Shoemanbundy

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    17 pages in and no one knows how to get into Lava Reef Zone yet? Are we mad? :psyduck:

    Seriously though, how do you play it?
     
  17. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

    Sometimes the real thing™ Wiki Sysop
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    Michael Jackson and his team don't strike me as being "practical" people. I don't think he was working with any boundaries, so "make some music" probably only led to work-in-progress versions of Jam and Stranger in Moscow, with other half-baked things thrown in for good measure. The Sega people would have had to remix what they had into Act 2s, and yet also not play with it too much just in case it upset the man.

    All Jackson's contributions get priority because it's too much of a marketing coup to ignore. But when there are allegations afoot, you're left somewhere between pretending none of this happened, and keeping things around just in case things blow over and we can market things again. I think it's hard to overestimate how important this deal would have been in 1993/94. It almost doesn't even matter if the music sucked.

    I don't know if we lost out because of that. Sample-heavy music was all the rage in the early 90s and I think it fits in better with what Sega of America wanted Sonic to be back in the day, but more effort seems to have gone into the older set. However, Launch Base Zone sounds like it's from a different game entirely so there's a very likely chance it was replaced for the simple reason that "it sucked".


    Worth pointing out though - Garfield: Caught in the Act was brought to the PC with some of its prototype content and ideas restored. So super accurate conversions might not have been a high priority back in the mid-90s.

    My understanding is you can force your way in to the level slot, but the contents are in other places, so you'll just get garbage without extra hacking.


    Sonic 3 is a nightmare because a lot of the documentation is still in people's heads. I don't know how much of Sonic & Knuckles exists in the final Sonic 3 ROM.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2019
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  18. MastaSys

    MastaSys

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    I just mind blowing that after all these years the soundtrack production timeline was actually the oposite of what we all tought. And the Drop Dash was originally created by Sonic Team? Damn.
    Now i'm curious on what other curiosities and oddities the Mania Team actually know.
     
  19. TBH, it's just a matter of arrangement. The start of LBz sounds odd because it is an unfinished remix of the 20th century fox opening (it's even the same key), as LBz was the last zone of Sonic 3 they probably wanted something epic and that is the epitome of the epic 'big band' sound used in Sonic game themes/fanfares.


     
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  20. MastaSys

    MastaSys

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    The two themes are perfectly fine for a regular zone that wasn't meant to be the final one in the first place. Even more when the game still looked a lot like Sonic 2.