Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by drx, Nov 16, 2019.
Well ok, I like parts of them. The lack of awkward shine spots and the lack of a mouth.
Very Quackshot. I don't remember where I heard/read it -- Strafefox of Shmuplations -- but it was said Takashi Yuda did sprite work meant to mimic computer rendered graphics. Though the final set seems to land there more.
This whole Sonic Month thing has been utterly amazing. What a grandiose capstone to the whole event!
In my eyes, these sprites look like final Sonic 3 and Knuckles' Chaotix sprites for Knuckles mashed into one design, and I think that looks really cool.
I think they were drawn to fit stylistically with the Sonic 2 placeholders. I'd say they pulled it off. For the standing sprites at least; the head on the walk cycle looks like ass.
I'm almost sensing some Mania Knuckles from these sprites...
That team def had more information than we have
I like how even in this build, you can place the rotating red balls in AIZ, even though they are meant for that special stage demo thingamabobber
I had to come back as soon as I saw the news on Twitter.
What an amazing find I've been waiting decades to see this build in action.
And I can't believe the drop Dash originated from Sonic 3, that's amazing!!
And I'm sorry I'm out of the loop on everything but this is something unreal I can't wait to play the ROM and see what's up.
Hey, longtime lurker here. I finally decided to join because of an observation I made a while ago while reading this thread that I don't *think* anyone else has hit upon just yet.
According to Hidden Palace, this build is dated November 3rd, 1993, correct? At this point, as far as any of us can tell, Michael Jackson and his team have not even begun to be involved with the project yet. But at this point, MJ's face is already being plastered on the cover of every tabloid--his sex abuse allegations broke in August.
If indeed MJ, Brad Buxer, et al. did not join the project until after this build of October/Nov. '93, then his music wasn't implemented until well after the Jordan Chandler scandal became worldwide news. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, should be the final nail in the coffin of Roger Hector's story of how MJ's music came to be removed. Maybe his story changed over the years, but what he originally said was that they had to remove Michael's music after news of the scandal broke. But the lack of MJ DNA in this Fall '93 build and the abundance of it in final build paints a very different story.
Everyone keeps saying the MIDIs in the PC version sound like ass for sounding like MIDI, but honestly the tunes there are more polished than they are here in this build. If we could have the better composition of the PC version with the authentic instrumentation of this build, that would be the best of both worlds.
Also, just to remind people, let's start digging into Knuckle's exclusive paths. I'm sure there's some interesting stuff there we haven't looked into yet.
I mean isn't that basically what ValleyBell did for Complete?
An amazing find, drx and Co. Thank you all for finding and sharing these wonderful treasures to the Sonic fan base. Sonic 3 & Knuckles is my favourite of the Genesis series of Sonic games.
So...the music that ended up being released in 1994 for the Sonic 3 Genesis.
Was it a case that management at Sega said that they didn't use Michael Jackson's music (due to the scandal of MJ), the development team for the game didn't get the memo (or got the memo too late), the version of Sonic they mass produced contained MJ's music, and then when the product was released to the public, it used MJ's music instead of these prototype ones?
I'm guessing this was a nightmare for Sega management when it was realized that MJ's music was contained. And continuing to deny it was the safer option than admitting fault.
EDIT: Just downloaded the FLAC zip file of Sonic 3 proto music. It seems the prototype was obtained since at least September 10, 2019. Cool.
He converted the existing PC MIDIs and referenced other 3K songs for their instrumentation. They sounded very different than the ones here. Valleybell's renditions were prettier, but we know that they did not use authentic instrumentation.
Not quite - as at that time, we didn't have the authentic instrumentation from this build - as we didn't have this build.
Clean shot of the HCZ act 1 BG: EDIT: Updated to include the full BG.
While I think the final BG is much better, I really like the colors on this.
This build has two leftover palette sets from previous builds. Here are some comparison shots:
There are leftovers from at least two builds in the ROM, which is how it was possible to get LRZ working. Can't wait to see what you guys find.
(ignore the numbers that replace TIME, that's just me)
So cool to finally see a prototype of Sonic 3 (my favorite of the series, along with S&K). It solves some mysteries about the development, but introduces many new ones! It's also great to see so many people from the community come together again. Thank you drx and everyone else who made this possible.
Track 26 screams Tetsuyuki Maeda everywhere, and I like that.
Big Arms theme also sounds quite unfinished, with a more boring mixing.
I'm poking at this with a disassembler. Haven't got too far yet, just got through the level init code, but I'm noticing that the code here seems to be decently between Sonic 2 and Sonic 3. I keep losing track following one disasm and have to pick up on the other one.
- Game is not region-locked (like S2)
- Game checks for PAL machines (like S3)
- Checksum code is dummied out; loop instructions are replaced with NOPs
- The game mode list is formatted like Sonic 2's using bra instructions instead of a jump table like S3
- The only game modes present (unless they're there but not in the list) are the Sega screen, the title screen, the level select, the main game mode, and the two special stage demos
- Level art load blocks are the same size as in Sonic 3
- It appears that the game attempts to load the Miles/Tails HUD like Sonic 2
- The "night mode" (shadow/highlight debug mode) cheat from Sonic 2 is still there
- The "special CNZ bumpers" code and the corresponding check for CNZ are both still present.
In this prototype, the arithmetic underflow double-death/drowning lives glitch still works, you just have few chances to actually properly utilize it due to the level design.
I figured out that the bug is still presents works by using debug to go under Carnival Night 2, where I had ample room to place rings, spikes (and there is still something resembling a solid platform), and I knew once I drowned I'd still hit the stage bottom/die. I was pessimistic, but once Sonic disappeared after drowning, sure enough, the death sound, and the subtraction of 2 lives, followed.
So turns out Knuckles Chaotix recycled some assets from this beta as well? Just noticed that sound $D3 ($B2 in S3&K) is the SAME one used in Chaotix (S.E. 34).
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