Sonic Mania (Switch, PS4, Xbox One, PC)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by TimmiT, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Yeah, I always viewed the spindash thing in Sky Chase less as a glitch and more as the game basically saying "Tails is good at keeping with your movements, but don't push you luck" :V

    That said, if they had made the spindash more usable in SCZ/MSZ1 it would have expanded your arsenal there and made these sections more enjoyable.
     
  2. qwertysonic

    qwertysonic

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    Yeah not being able to spindash sucks. It's crazy how they recreated the entire glitch in Mania. Spindash would have made that Caterkiller boss much easier.
     
  3. ^ Didn't they fix the accidental spindashing off the plane in MS1?
     
  4. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    I mean if you're asking for realism, standing on the wing of a plane and simply walking towards the front or back is going to make you fall off almost immediately, regardless of what the pilot does to keep you on. If you walk towards the front and the plane speeds up, you don't stay in place - you just walk towards the front on a faster plane.

    I'm pretty sure it's supposed to just a case of abstracted movement - you push right to make the plane go right, and left to make the plane go left (which is why up and down also work when you're standing on the plane). Jumping you can argue is Tails trying to catch you, but everything else is plane control.

    I think Sonic 4 actually did this better - Sky Fortress Act 2 makes it a little clearer that it works this way (although not massively) and doesn't allow you to just fall off the plane. It's my favourite 2D Tornado section, which is like saying my leg is my favourite place to be stabbed in, but it's true.

    Not only did they not fix it, but thanks to the Drop Dash you have multiple ways of being fucked over. My favourite part is how it lets you die during the score tally.
     
  5. BlueSkiesAM2

    BlueSkiesAM2

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    I like Tornado sections in theory and think MS1 is extremely pleasant aesthetically. However, I would prefer if they just made those sections normal horizontal shooters. It’d remove the visual jank of Sonic walking on top of the plane and allow the devs to incorporate some actually engaging gameplay into the sections. It’s pretty far removed from the base gameplay but I don’t see that as a problem (especially when Puyo Puyo is there as a boss).
     
  6. Blast Brothers

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    Ultimately, Sonic's controls don't lend themselves super well to the structure of the plane sections. Sonic isn't very adept at turning around quickly or making very incremental movements- and you have to do a lot of that while on the Tornado. The slow roll deceleration is especially annoying, and makes the spindash even less useful (as if being able to kill yourself with it wasn't enough).

    While I enjoyed MS1 as a fun reimagining of Sky Chase, my memories of it mostly consist of Sonic trying to turn around while running into the edge of the screen. I don't know how you fix that without changing Sonic's handling for one section of one level- but that seems like it would be awfully counterintuitive to the player.
     
  7. _Sidle

    _Sidle

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    I keep forgetting to post and end up writing more... this is like at least three full posts in a single post. @[email protected]
    • It's a way better version of og Sky Chase since Mirage Saloon 1 scrolls faster and has more dynamic enemy placement. The vultures actively swerving from all angles keeps it nice and hectic.
    • Would I prefer a Knuckles/Encore Act 1? Probably. Would I have liked the Tornado section to be it's own level somewhere instead of eating into an original zone? Yes. Is the Tornado section itself inherently bad? Nah, it's fine.
    • You're only safe from falling off the plane on the right side. To the left, single-tap spindash or dropdash with no/rightward momentum seems to always be safe. You will likely be killed by multi-tap spindash or dropdash with left momentum. Weird.
      The looming threat of a swift demise doesn't stop me from dropdashing back and forth the whole trip like a madman, it's useful for the combat alongside being fun playing chicken with the speed threshold~
    • It's no-contest the most iconic/infamous part of the zone, so not including it in the "original-style act" would be odd to do.
    • The section itself isn't terribly complex to do once you have a plan... Get to the top, don't stand where two sets of blocks rotate next to each other, do it fast enough to not drown. Maybe a bit much for inexperienced players?? It's no barrel tho.
    • Entering the section from one of the normal two entrances, it's been made slightly easier... it starts you higher up, on the third+fourth set of blocks instead of fourth+fifth like the original. Also no death pit on the bottom.
    • Players who are willing to experiment with pathing have a few ways around it... Taking the absolute highest path skips over it entirely, and the last-second jump off the sloped entrance to the section.
    • Retro Engine fabled for being strict on crushing would make this pretty harsh. Though, I don't know how I'd go about comparing/testing the minute differences in leniency.
    (fun map design trivia: if you know where the original S2 shortcut is (the one where you stop and turn left on a small hill, and jump into a secret passage wall), the Mania version cuts that path off after the first loop to give you a Bubble Shield, and dumps you even further into the water-rising block section than normal, at the bottom next to the giant Ring.)
    • Pullcords/submarines are fairly close together, but if you're confident in not taking hits + gathering rings, you can just cruise by in darkness. It's like drowning, without slow water or immediate death for inaction. (So better.)
    • The visual effect is really good! The smoke layer expanding and contracting as it moves up, the color isolation to near monochrome red and black, it's just cool to look at while you slowly suffocate.
    • The current way involves being automatically sent to a specific point at a set speed iirc. Feels quite modern Sonic in it's rigidity, wouldn't want that mass-applied to a classic game. Planning maps around it being fluid would be tough, but worth it.
     
  8. foXcollr

    foXcollr

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    I honestly couldn't help but think that entire act was just a heavy spoonful of nostalgia when I played it for the first time, like if was just there to say "hey look, this happened in Sonic 2, remember? well here it is again". Especially considering they did it in Sonic 4 too. And even though they changed up the formula a bit to make it more refreshing (especially with the transition into the train segment), it still gets quite a bit stale. I only enjoy it as a break from the action if I'm running the full game, because then it's like a relaxing little detour.
     
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  9. TheOcelot

    TheOcelot

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    Act 1 for Knuckles & Act 2 are by far the best acts in MS. Knuckles act is well designed to make use of his climbing and gliding and plenty of alternative routes for replay value. I wish Knuckles had more full solo acts in Mania. Act 2 is awesome regardless as to which character you play with or whether in Mania or Encore mode, music is so good for both acts and I do enjoy the Heavy Magician Fang/Bean/Bark boss.

    Sonic & Tails Tornado action in Act 1 is definitely more interesting and challenging than Sky Chase which has more of a gentle "calm before the storm" feel to it. Whereas the badniks are more aggressive in MS and the change in screen elevation (with badniks still attacking) makes for a better challenge overall. It's still far too automated, what saves it for me is the brilliant Skyway Octane music-one of the best pieces in the soundtrack which I love listening to which is why I never choose to go super in this act. I do wish the train section which is pathetically short and linear was longer and more interesting. In fact I think a much shorter tornado segment with a more substantial train layout would have been better.

    I know I'm in a minority saying this; I actually really like the "Uber Caterkiller" mini-boss in S&T's act 1. One of my favourite bosses in the game. I know the depth perception with the Caterkiller moving forwards and backwards can be confusing, but I was able to learn quickly when to time my attacks and how to avoid taking damage (the sound ques when the CaterKiller is moving off screen helps a lot as well as the lightning shield found in the train section). I like it more than the other CaterKiller mini-boss in Knuckles/Encore act 1.

    Encore Mode act1 is pretty good although I do have some issues with some of the level design and badnik placement. Definitely a better fit for MS than the Tornado act1.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2022
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