Sonic Mania (Switch, PS4, Xbox One, PC)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by TimmiT, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Totally agree. Heavy Shinobi might just be my favourite Sonic Boss in general, I'd really like to see more bosses like that. Overall the Mania bosses were pretty unique and more often than not went above and beyond thematically. Even bosses that initially frustrate me, like Metal and Heavy Gunner, hiked up to the top of my inspring boss design list. Heavy Gunner is a side-scrolling boss done perfect. Did anyone else initially struggle with Knux though? He enjoyed gliding into those bombs too damn much :eng99:
     
  2. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    I really disagree with you on Heavy Gunner. That fight is rubbish. It's another one where you can turn super and put the controller down for 2 minutes.
     
  3. Laura

    Laura

    Brightened Eyes Member
    Heavy Gunner is sometimes longer than the rest of the act :V
     
  4. That's fair I suppose. I've collected the Emeralds in at least one save file... but I honestly can't say I enjoy going Super. It really does feature some core components that make for a great boss fight imo, such as showcasing Sonic's impressive speed, not being able to spam attack, and having to recognize patterns. I also very much appreciate that if you lose your rings you don't have to scramble to collect them and risk dying, just play defense for a second and take the high (or was it mid?) road to collect a few more.

    Lmao this is true, but I don't mind. It ain't like Flying Battery where you're in constant danger of timing out.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2021
  5. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    Don't know how you were making Knuckles glide though.
     
  6. Lol well it obviously wasn't intentional. I guess I would press or hold whatever button too hard/too long or something, but until I found the right spot to wait and jump from, I'd end up gliding. Worked out well enough in due course, as I decided to hone my rolling skills instead. I do still struggle to NOT glide with Knuckles in general, to the point that I wish it was mapped to a separate button. Gotta say though, you must play with mighty precision or utilise some seriously un-sensitive controller to wonder how to slip into a glide.
     
  7. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    You have to press the button twice to glide (/perform any other double jump action). If you just press it once, you'll only jump. Tap it for a short jump, hold it for a longer jump, just like in 99% of platformers. I can't imagine how you're managing to double-tap the button so much that you struggle to avoid gliding. The problem is definitely with you or your controller.you shouldn't be having trouble with it.
     
  8. kyasarintsu

    kyasarintsu

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    Not having to actually deal with the bosses is a great incentive to collect the Emeralds. Some bosses, like Heavy Gunner and that drill thing in Lava Reef, are sadly not made much faster.

    I can totally imagine that some players would also glide out of habit because they think it'll get them over the missile and out of danger, but the weird autoscrolling mechanics and glide acceleration end up making their jump arc deceptively short and gets them hit.
     
  9. I've never payed too much attention to platforming bosses, but yea, they are kind of rubbish. I suppose a genre built on obstacle courses wouldn't necessarily have the best boss design.
     
  10. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

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    The Heavy Gunner boss is awful because running bosses in general are awful 90% of the time and it's no exception. The way it's designed makes it relatively boring and time consuming for the skilled player, and for the unskilled newbie it just frustrates them to no end because losing your rings in an autoscrolling boss is some next level bullshit when you don't have literal years of experience with Sonic's physics system behind you.
     
  11. Starduster

    Starduster

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    I don't really think it's fair to call a boss bad if you can go Super Sonic and let the boss run into you, because Super Sonic is ultimately something the game isn't strictly designed around. It's an incentive for the player to go through extra content and most casual players won't have unlocked the ability by Studiopolis like a lot of us lot would've. Now, being able to put the controller down as Super Sonic and let the boss kill itself *can* be indicative of a problem with that boss (it certainly is with the original Lava Reef, that boss is literally just an auto-scroller with no real dynamism to it), I don't think it's a fair criticism towards Heavy Gunner because there is still an element of recognising what missile you need to hit and predicting when it will come in. I know it's not the most involved boss in the series, but it's also only the third mini-boss.

    My personal least favourite boss in the game would probably have to go to the giant Caterkiller or Heavy Rider - I think the Caterkiller boss (in Sonic and Tails' Act 1) can sometimes struggle to convey where exactly it is and when you should be trying to hit it, while Heavy Rider is conceptually interesting but I feel like it can be pot luck as to whether you'll be able to hit her without invincibility frames. I think it would've been a smoother time if there were certain points where you could spindash into Jimmy to stun the two, pushing them backwards and having the ball and chain swing a bit slower for a few seconds. Not to make it a boss that's invincible most of the time, because of course you can still hit her regardless if you're skilled enough, but it would've been nice to have a way of temporarily kneecapping her.
     
  12. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    Heavy Gunner isn't bad because of the Super issue. It's bad because it's slow and tedious, and the Super issue further highlights that. The boss just attacks you very slowly with missiles, and you hit those missiles back at it. You're at the mercy of the RNG dictating how quickly you can attack it, and there's always a long and drawn out animation between when you hit a missile, the missile hitting the boss and the next cycle beginning. Turning Super letting the boss defeat itself still takes forever.
     
  13. SystemsReady

    SystemsReady

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    and related to that, I adore how frigging asterons are used. for new players it fits with the game's aesthetic, and for old players it does both that and gives them a heart attack
     
  14. SystemsReady

    SystemsReady

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    I still don't know how to consistently damage the caterkiller without hurting myself...
     
  15. kyasarintsu

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    I hate Sonic and Tails's MSZ1 boss so, so much. The ease at which you can get thrown off the plane and instantly killed by the recoil of hitting the boss really doesn't help.
     
  16. Linkabel

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    I always felt many bosses in Sonic needed one or two extra attack phases.

    For example, Heavy Gunner could shoot missiles, but make a pass over you to shoot you from above that gives you a chance to hit him directly. And then a third attack pattern where he goes in front of you to attack you that gives you another chance to hit him directly again.

    Makes the fight more involved and easier to end since you have several chances to hit him depending on your skill level.
     
  17. Childish

    Childish

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    Yeah, I guess the SLZ boss does use the bomb catapult things to good effect. With the HCZ1 boss though it kinda doesn't qualify since by making momentum the only option for knuckles limits ways of attack and makes the boss worse IMO. A good boss has multiple ways of being attacked and has the ability to attack dynamically. IIRC CNZ is the only one to satisfy both.
     
  18. Frostav

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    Yup. This is why, as insane as it sounds, I honestly like a decent amount of Shadow's bosses (though some are truly terrible), because Shadow has gun mechanics and you don't have to engage in the "wait while they reveal their weak point" stuff as much (except on bosses like Diabolon which are terrible for that exact reason). You grab a gun and wail on them :V

    These comparisons are a meme in the gaming community, but the reason why I like, say, Dark Souls bosses, is because you can pretty much always attack them--you just have to find the right time. With platformer bosses, they often involve waiting until the rng makes the boss reveal their weak spot or you cycle through their rigid attack list until you get to the "weak spot reveal" phase. 2D Sonic bosses are much the same and in fact Mania is if anything worse about it because many of the bosses rely on a very specific gimmick and few are the "just jump on them 8 times whenever" style the classics often used. The gimmicks are really neat and cool, but only the first time you fight them.

    Your FP comparison rings true too--it's just way more involving for me when you have combat mechanics and the challenge is figuring out when to attack the boss for the most damage. It makes fights much more dynamic and like you're squeezing into every gap the boss is accidentally giving you than them just arbitrarily opening up for no reason.
     
  19. Overlord

    Overlord

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    For what it's worth, until reading that post I had no idea you could even jump into them - Asteron + hitting = death, so I've always avoided them. Will have to give that a go next time I fight that boss.
     
  20. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    My name's Martin Member
    I can't remember a fun boss in Mania, and only some of them manage to feel like the classic ones. I actually like Metal Kai (only that part) more than most bosses in the game. Other enjoyable one is the one in MMZ2.

    I think both pinball bosses are probably my favourites. The S2 one is actually real good, and I beat the SCD one a lot in time attack as some kind of speedrun, because it can be beaten almost instantly if you know how and do it right.

    The boss is boring as hell, but I never stood still to fight it: I hit his ugly face every time, so I knew I could knock it back. Guessing the puzzle being as aggresive as I was took a bit longer than expected, but it's about 5 hits to send it to its sand tomb once you know that.

    yes? I find that one of the easiest bosses, it's a bit stressing to be careful but it's not that hard to hit, the hard part, I agree, is never being hit in the process, more clearly during pinch mode. It's also one of the bosses without a gimmicky wait, it just comes and you hit or dodge.

    Staying in the middle and jumping only vertically, if you fail hitting the head you'll be bounced back to the plane unhurt. It has depth when jumping from back to front, so you don't have to care if it appears right where you are, and the middle point is the safest one if you really need to dodge it.


    This. I use the ice cube to be shielded against the asterons when I fail to hit the ninja, sometimes even making it hit me so it protects me from its own weapons. Anyway, not a favourite boss at all.