Exhausting sounds about right. If I recall correctly; Iizuka was keen for FB to appear in Mania because he likes that zone a lot. So it doesn't surprise me Team Mania maybe went a bit overboard with the re-design, really trying hard to create something special for Iizuka. They mostly did a good job. I don't mind the longer upper route in act2, although it does drag after a while and there are too many automated sections. Yeah, the lower route is shorter (and allows access to two special stage rings which can't be accessed in the higher route), but it's design is a kind of a mess with slower platforming and hazards all over the place which can get frustrating. Also, you can obtain a ridiculous number of extra lives in FB (about 8 or 9 in each act). I really like the rain and wind affects in FB and can't get enough of the music.
I don't know if this was previously reported, but just in case... : [media] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1KLjQ3t-4E [/media]
OMG, so I'm not alone after all! I was embarrassed to say it since FBZ is such a fan favorite. It's the only level I actually dread in the game.....even with new things and the removal of the Act 2 rising/crushing floor. I have more of an issue with it than I do Oil Ocean! I'll have to give that lower Act 2 route a try...didn't realize they switched things up here, which is pretty great. Can we also say that Flying Battery/Wing Fortress was the same ship this whole time now? I don't think any other zone had as much similarities while being called something else in this whole canon, not even Green Hill.
Hmmm, idk, if you take Sonic CD into account you end up with a lot of Sonic 1 redos (Palmtree Panic, Tidal Tempest, Metallic Madness come to mind in particular). Also Emerald Hill is very similar to Green Hill. I don't think FBZ and WFZ are necessarily the same level though, but they blend almost seamlessly, which of course is another reason why FBZ should have been in the second half of the game. Making probably the 3rd or 4th longest zone in the game the 4th zone overall, particularly when it combines elements from the 8th stage of one game and the 2nd to last stage of another, seems kind of misplaced. And I'm with you, I honestly wasn't a huge fan of FBZ in S3K. Might be why I find the level exhausting here. It's fine, there's just too much of it for me.
Haha jeez, where were all of you when I said this in November? I was kind of right with the last thing I said there, since running the zone (both acts) in time attack's given me a better idea of how to get through them faster and more enjoyably, but the impression's never really left. I still don't look forward to it whenever I sit down to play any sizable chunk of the game.
Distaste for Flying Battery Act 2 has been around since launch and I always just laughed because it's one of my favorite acts in the game. Honestly though, it's 99% because of the stage's atmosphere. I like Lava Reef act 2 for the same reason, and I hear that one not being very popular either.
I do like the improvements to FBZ2, but it was definitely where I was feeling burned out, and had my first game over (due to the spider boss). Its length definitely should have made it a later zone. Also, can't help but notice Taxman and co have been fairly quiet lately.
HOPEFULLY working on Project Plus. If it is an enhanced update, I already know what I want out of it: & Knuckles Mode usable in save files, and Knuckles able to glide around with Sonic or Tails in tow. I made a sprite edit (haven't uploaded it anywhere, though) of Sonic and Knuckles, where I used Sonic's "riding the Tornado" pose to look like he's basically surfing on Knuckles' head. That and the obvious bugfixes and missing transitions, of course.
There's an awkward platforming segment on the lower path with those electrified wire things, and there's also the unforgivable oversight where your character will recoil too fast off those control robots to grab back onto the pole. These two things, along with those magnetized platforms that can crush you, always make me feel uneasy when playing through Flying Battery.
Can't disagree with most of you guys enough about FBZ2's length, TBH. If this was including or specifically referring towards the boss then yeah, I get the complaint, but I don't really feel exhaustion at all when playing through the level itself. Aside from the stormy ship aesthetics, I just really love the layout of the stage constantly shifting in and out of the battery, and I just can't get enough of the returning and re-purposed mechanics utilized in the map. Then again FBZ2 is one of my favorite levels in the game so yeah ¯\_(?)_/¯ Also late with this, but Mania won VGM Online's Best Score - Chiptune/Retro score in their 2017 Annual Game Music Awards.
I was never terribly keen on Flying Battery in 3K, so in Mania, Act 1 is still kind of a tedious snore for me. Act 2, though, my lord. I love Act 2. The music, the weather, all of that Wing Fortress. It's on the long side, but I don't mind that. I'm fine with some levels being much longer than others. That said, though, I'll agree that it probably should have been later in the game. My girlfriend has been playing through Mania, and she's been stuck on Flying Battery, whereas I know Press Garden is going to be a complete cakewalk for her.
With most of the levels in the game, I hear or read a 50/50 love/hate with them so it all becomes like... white noise to me, cuzzles.
Hey Sling. You and Team Mania did an absolutely stellar job with the level design for the new and re-imagined zones. If you ever have an opportunity to work on a project like this again, then we all know it will be in good hands! Yeah, there is the occasional instance in Mania when the level design perhaps could have been slightly better, but the same can be said for all the classic games (accept for Sonic 3&K where the level design is perfect XP).
Yeah, I can't thank you Slingerland and the rest of the dev team enough on the level design for this game. I haven't encountered level design this strong in a Sonic game in freaking years, and some of the layouts is honestly some of the best in the entire series (I've already beamed about FBZ2; but CPZ2, Metallic Madness, and especially Studiopolis and Mirage Saloon also get special praise from me). I've recently started writing walls of text on what I think is problematic about level design in recent games and Mania felt like it nailed avoiding the problems I've been articulating to a T, alongside taking serious notes from other important Sonic sites that discuss classic level design like Spark's thread here at Retro, the abandoned Sonic Science site, and Zone 0 among others. I would not only love to see you guys be brought back for another classic installment, but I really want to see you guys try and adapt it in a 3D space someday. Just sweep away into a dustbin the heap of poor design decisions applied to 3D Sonic titles and start fresh with Mania and the classics as a basis. It would, from my point of view, easily become not just the best 3D Sonic (and one that's actually fundamentally great), it would honestly be a quick contender as one of the best in the 3D platforming genre. There really isn't any 3D platformer out there that really embraces sloped terrain, exploration, and being a toybox of playful level mechanics like the Genesis games do. (On a last note Sling, are you able to personally comment on Mania's sales performance in any way, whether it be here or in reference to the upcoming SXSW panel? Or is that something you're not allowed to talk about [for now]? Thanks for reading.)
I can only imagine, but you guys did a great job. I can't even really say I hate any of the levels, just that I like some of them less. Even with the remixed zones I can't really think of one where I preferred the original zone over the new one.
Ditto. It was especially refreshing to see levels I didn't like before (Flying Battery, Metallic Madness) have such fun designs. FBZ2 is one of my favorite levels in the game, despite the wonky spider boss. Level preferences are always going to be divisive, but you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who enjoys Sonic and doesn't like Mania. I think that's what matters most.
There are three types of levels in Mania - those that I love, those I like a lot and Mirage Saloon Act 1 Sonic/Tails. The "worst" that the game has to offer is still pretty brilliant, with the only level I dislike being MSZ1 because it's just another Sky Chase. I get that Sky Chase was iconic in S2 and MSZ1 is shorter, faster and a little more varied that it was, but honestly it's just not a particularly fun concept. I'm really glad that Knuckles' alternative version of the act is one of the more unique and enjoyable. Other than that one stage though, everything is great. While the game has it's slower levels and faster levels, it's generally a lot more balanced than any of the Classics, without big chunks of the game sticking out as less enjoyable than others. It's much more consistent within it's platforming style while still managing to keep things varied with level design and gimmicks being so well thought-out.
I've had at least a couple of friends lament how they hated Metallic Madness in Sonic CD, but then found it to be one of their favorite levels in Sonic Mania. :v:
