Sonic Mania (Switch, PS4, Xbox One, PC)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by TimmiT, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Dark Sonic

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    Certainly feels that way. Maybe a Plus version would justify a physical copy but idk how many $20 games are distributed physically from the get go these days?
     
  2. 360

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    I'm sticking to my assertion that Mania's lack of a physical release was due to the short-sighted extreme doubt and caution that Sonic Team exercised with the whole "We don't know how Sonic Mania is going to be received" which I'd translate as "This game might bomb in reviews and sales" hence the lack of a physical release because Sega had concern that such a release would lose them money.

    Hopefully with Mania's insane success and the prospect of a potential "Sonic Mania Plus" being unveiled soon they'll reconsider. Monster Boy getting one is a good sign.
     
  3. Pengi

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    The other thing to consider is that if Sonic Mania got a physical release, it would have cost more, and the digital version would almost certainly have been priced to match the physical version. Sonic Mania's price point seems to have been a sweet spot that got a lot of impulse buys.

    It does seem like they were being very cautious about it though. Iizuka was confident enough to get the project rolling, but said he was unsure how the fans would react to an old fashioned looking pixel art Sonic game. Then in interviews he said that as long as older Sonic fans enjoyed it he would consider it a success, which sounded a little bit like preemptively saving face. Shun Nakamura said it was "very interesting" that Mania got high scores and that Sonic Team sat down and discussed what they could learn from Mania to put in their 3D games.

    The fact that it turned out to be the story of the plucky underdog making good might have been for the best in the long run, especially if it means we get a "Plus" version with extra/cut content.
     
  4. KingOfBunnies

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    Too bad his bits still aren't very funny and he still shills for Sony more than anyone I've ever seen before.
     
  5. Beltway

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    I don't think these are questions that really something to be considered when we're talking about the release of a Sonic game. That has been the crux of my complaints about how I see the ball being in Sega's court on this whole issue for some time now.

    But I digress. Besides, it's fucking hilarious to see Mania be considered a risky venture that should be questioned on whether more coin should be put into it to give it a retail release.

    While not even four years ago, we saw this shit put out there on the market at fucking full price.

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    (Nevermind a third Boom game being greenlit and released after the first two Boom games failed miserably in reviews and sales.)
     
  6. Laughingcow

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    It occurs to me that one of the probably reasons for the rejection of Mania by Sonic team wasn't just Sonic 4 but their more recent failure with Sonic Runners.

    If you recall when it was announced, they exploited the classics & Sonic 4 in the trailer. Could it be the totally justified backlash & ensuing failure played into the decision as well? I believe so

    Another though, them being "surprised" about how well it does only tells me they played Sonic Mania and though it was shit. Was anyone here surprised after playing Mania to find out it did exceptionally well? I don't believe so.
     
  7. SuperSnoopy

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    I would agree that they were a bit shortsighted on the matter, but I think you're reaching a little bit too much here.
    What they meant by "being surprised" is that they didn't know if people would like a 2d retro-styled Sonic game in this day and age.

    I don't know why so many people here are convinced that Sonic Team is a bunch of bitter assholes that hate Team Mania because they made a better Sonic game that the one they were working on.
    Are they completely clueless ? Probably. Are they mean spirited ? I don't think so.
     
  8. Laughingcow

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    In an age where small 2d pixel games exist side by side with their large ass 3d counterparts on both physical and digital storefronts, you start the think, "Nobody can be this stupid". The sad part being that if it were purely stupidity, that would be worst then attempted maliciousness in my opinion. There's a reason the parody of Sonic Team doing cocaine exist, we cannot believe anyone can be this incompetent without some logical explanation. Nobody should consider Sonic 4, Sonic Runners, and Sonic Mania in the same league.

    And then there is stating the obvious: We as consumers suffer because they suck. I don't know about you but for myself and others, that's malicious even if Sonic Team doesn't mean it.
     
  9. SuperSnoopy

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    Well, I have to agree with you on that one. It's true that we end up suffering because of the decisions they make, but I can find it in myself to resent them for that. At the end of the day, they're just a bunch of people trying to do something good, and I know of hard that can be sometimes.

    But yeah, if I ever have the chance to have a wish granted, my absolute priority will be to see what the fuck is going on at Sonic Team's HQ. Sometimes I wonder if they even have an Internet connection.

    That, or the cure to cancer.
     
  10. The KKM

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    How popular is something like Shovel Knight in Japan? From our perspective here it's obviously naive to have doubts whether Sonic Mania would sell, but imagine just 10 years ago? In an industry where games keep pushing for higher graphical fidelity and elaborate gameplay, and simpler art styles and gameplay gets mostly relegated to mobile, it's really not a stretch, if you're mostly working in a completely different language and culture, to think that a game that amounts to a release of 1995 would crash and burn for being too niche for a modern market.
     
  11. Dissent

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    Right, it would have cost more to make each physical version. There's little cost to Sega to release something just digital, with physical you have to worry if there's even demand, if you're going to meet demand when it's hot, and if the sales will cover the costs. Financially, it was not a smart business decision to pursue a physical release because the price of the game would have been inflated to cover the cost of production and people already are adverse to high costs for short 2D retro-styled games. In hindsight, yes, it may have been wise, but I don't find it a bad decision at the time.
     
  12. 360

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    Sonic Mania's insane success absolutely caught them off-guard and I'd agree to a certain extent that their caution was somewhat warranted because however popular the 2D retro pixel art games are in their recent renaissance, particularly on Steam, those type of games, whilst popular, are still only selling somewhere in the region of hundreds of thousands of units - not the millions we strongly suspect Sonic Mania did based on the limited but very telling data (that Sega Sammy financial report) we currently have. So that's what smashed their expectations and took them by surprise. Sonic Mania wasn't just a success - it was the greatest success a Sonic game has seen since the Megadrive era, in the realm of the millions the Megadrive classics sold and what surprised them is how timeless the Megadrive formula for Sonic proved to be and even decades later it's still just as popular as it was then with the market responding accordingly.

    Honestly based on what Sonic Team have said in terms of "Sonic Mania's reception will determine Sonic's future" or something to that effect - I think we're seeing the early indications of Sega instigating that line of decision, with new Sonic games highly likely and rapidly set to be unveiled at SXSW with "Sonic Mania Plus" probably among the announcements. Basically Sonic Mania over performed, both in reviews and sales whilst Sonic Forces under performed by the same metrics and all of Sega's machinations since then ("Sonic Mania Plus" being leaked/rumoured, a hastily planned event to announce more for Sonic at SXSW) demonstrate that they're actively trying to respond to how the market received both games which was with enamoured love and adoration for the highly popular Sonic Mania, represented both in how much it sold and how it fared critically - and almost the exact opposite for Forces.

    I could see a "Sonic Mania Plus" being rapidly put in development when Mania set the charts on fire - complete with a physical release - and down the line I wouldn't be shocked in the slightest to see Sonic Mania 2. Sega are just going to react to the market - and the market has spoken in terms of which of Sega's two Sonic games last year that were more successful and popular.

    I think Sonic has a bright future as a result. Hopefully we'll get confirmation on all this to allay the endless speculation come next month at SXSW.
     
  13. Dark Sonic

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    Well in that time they could have made a 2D game that played well that wasn't a pixel game. It could have been 2.5D like Generations but with better physics, it could have been in a more drawn style like Wario Land Shake it or Rayman Origins/Legends (both which had physical releases). The demand for 2D games never really left, it's just that Sega had no idea how to think outside of the box when it came to how a Sonic game should look. Like Sonic 4 Ep 1 was released 7 years before Sonic Mania. They clearly knew people wanted a 2D Sonic yet their approach was just awful then.

    You know it's funny Rayman Origins was originally an episodic title when it was announced, which was around the time Sonic 4 Ep 1 was, but then it was delayed. I wonder if they saw how poorly Sega handled Sonic 4 and just said fuck it, we're making a full game?

    Random though, but I was thinking the other day that we're pretty much at the point where Sonic 3 was as far away from Sonic 06 as Sonic 06 is from the present. Isn't that weird?
     
  14. ICEknight

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    Perhaps they could have included a physical edition with the collectors set that came bundled with a frickin' statue, which they could afford.
     
  15. JaxTH

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    Yes, which they budgeted for. The cries for a physical release only came about when the Collector's Edition was unveiled.
     
  16. Mobiethian

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    I can't believe that the "I want a physical release" frenzy continues. I'm pretty sure that the team knows by now that it should be done. Just be patient. lol
     
  17. Pengi

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    Iizuka was the one who approved Mania. The team have only had positive things to say about their working relationship with Sonic Team and Iizuka in particular.

    If it were exclusive to the premium collector's set, it would have been an incredibly small print run, spread over three different systems, greatly increasing the cost per unit, especially for the Switch cartridges.
     
  18. Crasher

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    Honestly, I thought that it'd do well, but due to how badly damaged the brand has become, that it wouldn't see as much as it could have. That, and as mentioned before, the whole "2D sprite based platformer that looks like it came out of the mid 90's" probably led them to believe it'd be a hit within the portion of the fandom who enjoy the classics, but would fail to gain much traction elsewhere. If Mania was such a huge success that it blew any of the other recent sales out of the water, one would be surprised at how well it did comparatively to other games in the franchise.

    It sounds less like "Mania is a shit game" and more like "Mania is a good game that'll find a niche, but fail elsewhere" to me.
     
  19. Laughingcow

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    True but this is about the expectations of the game which they considered nothing more than some niche title despite their entire brand being build on this style of game. Never mind the newer 2d games that have built their brands on being retro styled game. Never mind that fucking FREEDOM PLANET exists.

    Not to mention their approval came on the grounds that it be watered down as a rehash of the older games instead of something completely original. You know, like with Sonic 4 and it's attempt to rehash the original trilogy. The irony being I wouldn't mind seeing Sonic 4 being rebuilt as a proper 2d title.

    It's about incompetence. All signs point to Sonic Team approving Mania being no different than some of their other good decisions: Just a lucky accident.
     
  20. Dark Sonic

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    To their credit though, it sounds like the original pitch was a small mini game so to speak and a bundle of Sonic 1/2 mobile, but then Iizuka suggested Mania as it became. So if anything it sounds like Iizuka steered the game to be more original than it would have been.