Sonic Mania (Switch, PS4, Xbox One, PC)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by TimmiT, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. 360

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    Amazing write-up, update and contribution Yeow. You're the best contributor to this thread by far. Always love seeing your replies and updates. Cheers man.

    Based on that Sega Sammy financial report (the one that said Sega's video game sales jumped from ~4 million to north of ~8 million primarily down to Sonic Mania's sales and success) I'd say that indication, in tandem with Mania's incredible chart performance particularly on Switch, means we're looking at sales in the realm of ~3 million by now. I'd say that's a reasonable and realistic estimation based on the data we have. The financial report indicates "multiple millions" at the bare minimum, so well above ~1 million at the very least.

    I think they'll touch upon it at SXSW which will be the platform where they shout about it. Also hoping "Sonic Mania Plus" is unveiled at the event. And maybe the new Sonic Racing game.
     
  2. Endgame

    Endgame

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    Do you think that if we had a physical release from the beginning, it might potentially have nearly doubled the profit? Or at least, seriously boosted the sales from the start?
     
  3. nineko

    nineko

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    Yes. And Denuvo discouraged many potential buyers, too. They marketed this in a terrible way, and yet it's so awesome that it managed to score these amazing figures anyway. But still, a goat has more financial skills than Sega.
     
  4. Lilly

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    Denuvo didn't stop Mania from entering the Steam awards, though, or Dragonball FighterZ from smashing the sales chart records. The thing is, I don't think enough people are outraged by the DRM, or even know what it is, to stop the big-name publishers from using it. A few aware consumers not buying a product isn't much of a loss, in the larger scheme of things.

    Unless SEGA provides the hard numbers soon, it's hard to say whether most of Mania's audience is on console, or if Denuvo's inclusion really did stop its adoption on PC cold. Sonic CD on Steam has never broke 500k owners, and that's been around for six years. Considering Mania only launched last summer, it's not doing too badly at ~150k owners on Steam.
     
  5. Dark Sonic

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    I bet the delay on PC caused some that might have bought the PC version primarily to buy another version instead (unless they're like me and double dipped). So Denuvo could be somewhat to blame for sluggish PC sales, but that might have resulted in other versions being sold more.
     
  6. Beltway

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    I've always said it's been Sega's game to lose, and I'm still not happy they ultimately never bothered with the idea; even when the demand was so obviously there (re: Amazon pre-orders for the Collector's Edition quickly selling out). Made all the more ridiculous that Mania wasn't permitted to get a retail release, but got various physical tie-in merchandise materials such as the vinyl soundtrack, the introduction manual, clothing, posters, and Mania-labeled drinks; as well as the Collector's Edition in of itself.

    The fact Mania was according to Sega "technically" the best-selling game of its week in the UK, but officially wasn't due to how it was a digital only game; is IMO an testament of Sega wasting a good opportunity they had. I'd argue that even a retail release produced and distributed on limited resources (straight vanilla release with no added features, limited-print run, and maybe making it exclusive to certain platforms [presumably the Switch, given its eShop performance] or certain retailers) would had still netted them a good amount of money that they obliged to leave on the table.

    And speaking on a broader note, I think Mania's lack of a physical release in spite of its reception (after and even before its release) also says something significant about Sega/Sonic Team's (historic) attitude towards 2D Sonic gameplay as a whole. There hasn't been one new retail 2D Sonic game produced for console platforms ever since the Genesis days. Even in the face of Nintendo's commercial hits of 2D revival titles (especially so with the NSMB series and DKCR), and even though what are supposed to be 3D entries have had an equal or larger ratio of 2D gameplay to 3D gameplay as far back as Colors.
     
  7. Dark Sonic

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    I'd like to imagine if a Mania 2 were to ever come out it would get a physical release with Mania 1 bundled with it. But yea Sega/Sonic Team have been very weird about Sonic for ages. Really hoping this game gave them the kick in the butt that was kinda needed.
     
  8. 360

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    Excellent post as always Yeow - to add to the discussion, I think the primary barrier that prevented Mania from getting a physical release was Sega/Sonic Team's own ineptitude and complete lack of foresight about the game's potential performance. Almost all of us here predicted the game would do exceptionally well, due to the buzz around the game - it rapidly becoming a critical darling in previews etc. and yet Sonic Team in interviews and so on clearly indicated that they were completely mystified about whether the game would perform well. Every pre-release interview was literally "We're not sure how the game is going to be received" and I think that's almost an exact quotation, so Sonic Team were completely in the dark about the game's commercial potential, even when fans could see the success coming from a mile away and knew the game would do well, hence the caution about doing a physical run of the game.

    The digital only status of the game was an "extreme caution" move because Sonic Team had no fucking clue whether the game would be well-received and even less of a clue that it was destined to light the charts on fire, remain on fire in the charts for several months and sell millions - in addition to the rave reviews. As a silver lining, given Mania's stellar performance a potential sequel or "Sonic Mania Plus" re-release is extremely likely to get a physical release now, as Sonic Team have finally been alerted to the obvious truth that yes, fans wanted this type of game and yes, produce more of the same and millions of us will buy it.

    Sonic Team's lack of foresight like they're all blindfolded to the popularity of classic "Megadrive" Sonic is super frustrating but given Mania's performance they would have seen the light by now.

    EDIT: Regarding Dark Sonic's excellent suggestion about Mania 1 being bundled - beyond fantastic idea, and that would serve as a decent consolation to the lack of a physical release the first time round.
     
  9. Zephyr

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    Looking at Taxman and Stealth's tenure with Sega/Sonic Team, each release seems like a gradual increase in scope, freedom, and risk. Sonic CD in 2011 saw the addition of Tails, but Final Fever was vetoed. This was digital only. Sonic 1 and 2 in 2013 saw the addition of Tails and Knuckles, additional paths in some stages, and Hidden Palace, but Egg Gauntlet was vetoed. This was digital only. Sonic Mania saw the addition of even more new Zones, and even more radical changes to existing Zones. This was likewise digital only, but had some physical merch, including the collector's edition. Each step of this process has felt like a small testing of the waters for the next.

    I don't like to be an optimist when it comes to this franchise, but given the positive press and (presumably) solid market performance, I imagine the next outing (if there is one) will have a greater chance of having a physical release than Mania ever did. And even then, there's still likely to be some sort of leash regarding some manner of content or distribution that they're constrained by. If there's ever going to be a point where they can 100% do what they want, I think it's still a long way off.

    I think their extreme lack of awareness of the amount of already-existing demand for this sort of stuff kinda justifies the degree of caution they're taking. I wouldn't say the severity of their ignorance is necessarily justified, but given that it's there, I can't exactly blame them for acting accordingly.
     
  10. Dark Sonic

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    Coming off that point, and I know I mentioned this before, but did anyone else find it odd that some of the added features from Sonic 1 and 2 mobile weren't included in Sonic Mania (particularly Sonic 2's new features). Sonic 2 had a boss rush but Mania didn't. Sonic 2 had online multiplayer but Mania only had local multiplayer. Sonic 2 had a hidden level with a unique way to access it while Mania was straight forward through and through. Sonic 2 let you play through the game as Knuckles and Tails yet for some reason that combo wasn't available in Mania (yet you could play as Tails and Knuckles... and Knuckles and Knuckles). Maybe some of it just came down to time, but I always found that a little odd.

    And boy do I wish this game had online multiplayer, I'd play the hell out of it.
     
  11. 360

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    This is super important - and an excellent point Zephyr. It has been a steady increase in creative freedom with each subsequent and successive release as Sega becomes more confident with Taxman/Stealth as time goes on. Everything they've produced has become increasingly more successful, peaking with Mania's rave reviews and millions of sales. I'd be very optimistic that next time round, should they be contracted for another project or potentially even be working on one now, we would be looking at even more creative freedom and liberty - possibly the most they've ever had - than they had with Mania 1 (that limited the amount of new zones versus remixed content for example). Like, a Sonic Mania 2 with mostly original zones is potentially possible now because they've proved themselves with multiple releases and Sonic Mania was the strongest success both critically and commercially that they've had thus far and Sega probably sees and (hopefully) recognises this.

    Theoretically they'd be in a much stronger, more creatively free position for their next project - should there be one.
     
  12. Zephyr

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    I'd kill for a classic styled Sonic game with online co-op.
     
  13. Dark Sonic

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    ^ Of all things the closest we got to that was Sonic 4 Ep 2 :v:

    As far as remixed zones go though in a sequel, what would be left? For the most part they've picked all the good ones that aren't in legal hell (Bye Carnival Night, Ice Cap, and Launch Base), and while I know it hasn't stopped them before, we've already seen other zones reused in other games (Mushroom hill, Casino Night, and Sky Sanctuary). Also some stages, while not directly in Mania, were heavily referenced, like Quartz Quadrant, Sky Chase, Sandopolis, Marble Garden, and Wing Fortress. What's left? Any line up they picked likely wouldn't be as nostalgic as this one and you'd end up with either 2nd tier favorites (ex: Starlight, Mystic Cave, Marble Garden), B variants of stages in Mania (ex: Spring Yard, Collision Chaos, Emerald Hill), or hell stages (ex: Labyrinth, Tidal Tempest, Metropolis, Sandopolis). Could it be done? Sure. It just might not be as fun.

    Unless of course Sonic Team let them use stages from other games outside of 1 - 3K and CD. Take some stages from Knuckles Chaotix and Sonic Triple Trouble? Sure why the hell not. I mean at that point the stages might as well be all new.
     
  14. 360

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    Well, Taxman/Stealth did say in that interview (the Rolling Stone one I believe) that every stage in their proposed level roster was rejected by Sega/Sonic Team so presumably they have a secondary (that was initially primary) level selection in mind in tandem with a plethora of unused ideas for said levels - so a Sonic Mania 2 that includes remixed levels again is entirely possible. That said I'd vastly prefer an all-new original game and building on what I said earlier, I could see a potential scenario where as Mania 1 was such a huge success, Taxman/Stealth are given the creative freedom to make precisely that game.

    It'll be interesting to see how Sega reacts to Mania's success - as in whether they'd push for a straight Mania 2 and the same again complete with remixed levels or give Taxman/Stealth the liberty to go all-out with an original game. At a guess we'll probably land somewhere in the middle (as in a greater ratio of original levels to remixed ones - but not a true "Sonic 5").

    SXSW will be interesting. Perhaps that's when the "Sonic Mania Plus" mystery will finally be revealed. More Mania is a must and hopefully Sega recognises that and intends to act upon it.
     
  15. Creature SH

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    I'd certainly be on board with levels that have never appeared in the classic Sonic 16/32 bit platformer form. Toxic Cave, Sunset Park, Radiant Emerald... Hell, maybe go crazy and go inside the actual Mean Bean Machine as an escalation of what we saw in the Chemical Plant remix.
     
  16. Drex

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    I'd buy it a couple times if only for Toxic Caves and a Chaotix stage.
     
  17. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

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    I got it. Like a eureka bathtub moment: SONIC MANIA GEAR

    Bridge Zone
    Sleeping Egg Zone
    Sunset Park Zone
    Mecha Green Hill Zone
    Meta Junglira Zone
    Robotnik Winter Zone
    Red Volcano Zone (Sonic Blast rep whoo)
    Crystal Egg Zone
    Sky Base Zone

    Yuzo Koshiro and Tee Lopes team up for the OST. It's too good for this world. Pretend you never read this post.
     
  18. Beltway

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  19. Sir_mihael

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    I'm so glad that in the space of less than 12 months I'll be able to own two new physical Wonder Boy games, but I do feel like the lack of a Mania Physical release at this point, especially with the above news, is bordering on taking the piss now.
    Is Mania just in that awkward place of "too small for a full price big release / too big a reputation for a small publisher release" maybe?
     
  20. Welp, Sonic Mania just turned Caddicarus into a Sonic fan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bbtX9_Yk1I&feature=push-u&attr_tag=jfzbAuuYaXBvkNtf-6