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Sonic Mania (Switch, PS4, Xbox One, PC)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by TimmiT, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    Yeah he mentioned Angel island in particular was because the Ruby made it fall IIRC. I know it was also said somewhere that some of the levels were affected by the Ruby and some weren't.

    Now that we have some understanding of how the Phantom Ruby works from Forces (though it's not exactly consistent) I'm guessing Green Hill, Chemical Plant, and possibly Studiopolis are virtual reality, as well as Stardust Speedway. I'm gonna go ahead and assume everything afterwards is real. That takes care of the SS to HC transition, with SS disappearing and them falling into the real HC since they've been on Angel island the whole time. They'd then take the Tornado (left in Angel Island at the beginning of the game) to Mirage Saloon, and Oil Ocean is a different one from Sonic 2, just another oil rig built by Eggman. The Little Planet is either warped there by the Ruby (somehow) or is just passing by Earth again like in Sonic 4.
     
  2. big smile

    big smile

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    The reason I wanted to see this was because in S3, Sonic was supposed to break of the door of Flying Battery and then snow board into Ice Cap.
    Given that Press Garden is a snow level, this would have been the perfect opportunity to realize that idea (although I'm surprised Sonic Team didn't have Sonic sand board to Sandopolis in S&K).


    For me, the biggest one is Hydrocity -> Mirage Saloon. Upto this point, Knuckles seems to be having a separate adventure (Note that he starts in a different part of GHZ). But suddenly he's sitting on the Tornado? When did he meet up with Sonic & Tails? And why did the trio take the Tornado after Hydrocity anyway?
     
  3. makoeyes

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    There's nothing at all to say the Phantom Ruby was creating virtual reality copies of anything in Mania. Since it was never described or made to function as such in that game. The Ruby was capable of giving life and sentience to robots; clearly the Phantom Ruby was working much differently than when it went to Modern Sonic in Forces. Shoehorning the strange VR concept into Mania makes no sense and flies in the face of the story.

    For one, the Ruby only made virtual reality copies when it was actively being used by someone to do so. The entire premise of the Ruby was it's ability to warp objects through space and time. That's what Ruby Mist was in the first place. Secondly, by the very nature and consequences of all that happened, the Phantom Ruby warped and effected all things that happened on a real level. It's why the Hardboiled Heavies came into existence. It's why the game ended on Little Planet, and the Ruby is why Sonic jumped through time and space. Finally, the Ruby is why the Titanic Monarch blew up. The game or it's places weren't just an illusion.

    For whatever bad writing reason, ST decided to add a strange VR concept to what the Ruby was capable of doing in their game. But that doesn't mean that's how it was in it's original game/story.
     
  4. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

    DON'T TRUST THIS MAN Member
    Sonic Team: "The Phantom Ruby is simply a VR gem that creates illusions"
    Also Sonic Team: "The Phantom Ruby warped Classic Sonic from his home dimension to the world of Sonic Forces!"

    Even in Forces, the Phantom Ruby contradicts itself.

    I feel like, you can hand-wave it by claiming that even the characters in-lore don't ever know the actual powers of the Ruby, and only come to their own conclusion.

    Tails comes to his 'VR' answer and everyone's happy with that because to them it makes sense at the time, but this in itself could be another delusion of the Phantom Ruby, by creating an illusion of a 'solution'.

    Meanwhile the actual truth is "fuck you I'm the phantom ruby i'll contradict myself again in sonic mania 2" and I'm happy with that.
     
  5. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    I guess they just thought the Chaos Emeralds weren't fucky enough so they had to make a new macguffin. Please though, no more macguffins. We have Time Stones and Wisps and Chaos Rings and Super Emeralds and what have you. Just use the Chaos Emeralds or learn how to write a story.

    Speaking of the Phantom Ruby though in Forces, is the sand in Green Hill an illusion or is that real? Either way I have questions.
     
  6. Gestalt

    Gestalt

    Sphinx in Chains Member
    What will happen between Forces and the next game? Sonic Teams's free to do whatever they want plot wise. But yeah, Green Hill Zone should become normal again. It's not funny ok
     
  7. makoeyes

    makoeyes

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    I try not to shit on Sonic Forces but the whole Phantom Ruby explanation/contradiction is so ridiculous and just unnecessary.

    The Phantom Ruby can clearly warp space and time. It rivals the power of the Chaos Emeralds by itself, to the point it can punch a hole in reality and warp itself and Sonic to the future. Hell, Infinite gets it grafted onto his chest and can fly, shoot energy beams, and do all bunch of crazy, overpowered crap. And what does Sonic Team do?

    Sonic Team: SO LET'S MAKE IT AN ILLUSION ROCK!

    Like. That's just dumb. And it contradicts the entire purpose and means of why Classic Sonic is in Forces in the first place. Why even have the returning enemies in Forces be illusionary constructs and not just the real thing?

    It's just a vapid and inexplicable choice.

    Your explanation makes perfect sense though. It's just a shame that it's even needed. :v:
     
  8. Sean Evans

    Sean Evans

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    What? Are you geeks still arguing about this haha. The series contradicts itself all the time. Is it really that implausible that some rando gem can just do different things whenever it needs to? Why would seven gemstones that make you ultra strong and golden suddenly have the ability to warp time, or put the earth back together, or bring the dead back to life? That shit's fine, but a gem making illusions that warps people through time and space (with the Chaos Emerald btw, that's the only way you even get that ending) is somehow an inexcusable contrivance? I don't get you guys sometimes lol.
     
  9. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Idk I'm just like too many gems that do things. Considering how the chaos emerald weren't in Forces at all, they could have just used those and kept the plot the same.
     
  10. Adamis

    Adamis

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    Lammy and "Fafnir"
    Mania did the same with Bean, Bark and Fang.
     
  11. Aesculapius Piranha

    Aesculapius Piranha

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    Actually that kind of makes it worse. For Mania that was the power of an Eggrobo illusionist boss. For Forces that was the main ability of the new villain with Phantom Ruby powers. Infinite is arguably more deadly because of the reality shift stuff he does and the ferocity of his character, but it still puts a spotlight on the fact his powers were often used for simple fanservice with no real logical explanation. I mean wouldn't the story have been more interesting if the focus were on the fact he can fucking bend reality than the part where he can bring back nostalgic villains? That and because the fanservice was a main advertisement point, and people became dissatisfied when they realized their favorite baddy was only coming back as a clone. In some cases that clone was isolated to a cutscene or two. Contrast with Mania where the ruse was more palatable because people were not expecting to see these nostalgic characters in the first place and were happy they at least got a cameo.

    In the end this is just one of many cases where a fresh memory of Mania kind of made Forces look worse than it would have otherwise.
     
  12. Crappy Blue

    Crappy Blue

    Knuckles' Chaotix is a perfect game with no flaws Member
    Sure, maybe not, but that's... less fun? I mean, you bring up the Chaos Emeralds have had a wide variety of uses in the franchise too, and tbh I've never been fond of that either. It made them boring and repetitive, like you always know the Chaos Emeralds are gonna show up in some capacity and fix Any And All Issues that are happening regardless of the circumstances or exact problem. And I think that's part of why the Phantom Ruby was cool and exciting in Mania? Because it was a space-time-warping object separate from the Chaos Emeralds, and it was put into a context where all the Emeralds were back to giving characters the power to go super and not much else, giving the Ruby a distinct purpose and use compared to them.
     
  13. Nostalgia

    Nostalgia

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    I guess I'd have to go back and reserch ask the scenes from Sonic Forces but it seemed like most of the time in Forces the characters are talking about Phantom Ruby prototypes and there's a whole bunch of them. I took that as Eggman creating his own based on the real Ruby. Is there anything that specifically says the Phantom Ruby is in Infinite rather than a prototype? Could it be that the prototype can only create virtual reality whereas the real Ruby can actually change reality?
     
  14. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

    DON'T TRUST THIS MAN Member
    Yeah the series as a whole, definitely. But this is probably the first time one game has contradicted itself so drastically in one story. It's clear there was some fuckery with the writing going on that no-one at Sonic Team gave much thought about.

    You're right, and I agree with this. I'm not complaining that the Phantom Ruby can't do everything and anything, because I personally love that shit.

    My issue with it is because Sonic Team try to play it straight with their pigeon-hole explanation of the gem just being a 'VR/Illusion only' weapon in-game, as if it somehow ties a ribbon on everything we've seen so far, and then just close the book on any more questions.

    Even though we know the VR thing is clearly not all the gem can do. The writing basically plugs it's ears and says "I don't care anymore, we're telling you it's a VR weapon, stop asking questions"
    The game doesn't act like the Ruby is a mystery anymore, even though it clearly is.
    This never happened with the Chaos Emeralds, because the games have always been clear that their powers are mysterious and versatile as fuck.

    In short, it's not the Gem's versatility that's the problem, it's just the way Forces tries to tell you that their VR explanation is the definitive answer.
     
  15. XCubed

    XCubed

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    I want to see a comic will all of them sitting around, having a beer with one another, talking about all the abuse they have endured over the years....along with the Master Emerald.
     
  16. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    I don't know about Modern Sonic's canon since I skipped a few games, but this never happened in the classic games.
     
  17. Felik

    Felik

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    Yeah they only could make flowers turn into berries... and turn you into a Supersayan in the very next game but that's OK since that's obviously the natural progression of such power.
    Also they apparently are the only way to power rockets to space but only when game's plot needs so, why would anyone participate in a fighting tournament otherwise? That'd be silly.
     
  18. ezodagrom

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    Something interesting, a new test branch appeared on SteamDB with the description "Project Plus".
    https://steamdb.info/app/584400/depots/
     
  19. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    I'm intrigued.

    Go on.
     
  20. Oh my god. What is this? Does this mean what I think it does? In lieu of the "Plus" styled rom-hacks? Oh lord, we may be in for a treat.